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Nature(期刊)也写了有关叶诗文用药与否的文章

整理时间:2012-08-03 17:49 热度:°C

为什么奥林匹克的功勋引起怀疑
   
   多快是太快?
   
   文章提出四大问题
   
   1.叶的表现异常吗?
   是. 她的奥运成绩比自己最好成绩快了7秒,但真正被质疑的是最后50米比美国男游泳选手Ryan Lochte还快
   
   2.药物测试通过 排除了用药的可能?
   否
   
   3. 如何用选手的表现来抓用药者?
   要建立选手表现的数据库 血液的资料库 定期追踪
   
   4. 然后运动员(用药者)是否可以简单的约束自己不要表现的太好?
   那是一个需要被验证的问题
   
   原文出处:
   
   什么?你没听说过自然期刊? 我草,nature,这是科技类期刊的No.1了吧nature上如果有的话,那应该算在学术讨论吧这个文章没啥问题吧,人家有表示疑问的权利
   它也没给这事儿下结论,毕竟“异常”这个词只是表达与常规不同,人家并没有定性说是作弊啊
   充其量就是一群学究在学术的立场上讨论而已,其实这样也是好的
   真金不怕火炼,压着不让人说才会越传越邪乎
   提出的方法也没啥大问题各种shame on you 啊 评论里
   敢于直面权威嘛老外没算下上海世锦赛叶诗文最后50米多快么看下面的评论我笑了尼玛,这种文章也能上nature这个不代表nature官方的观点
   
   下面已经有中国科学家提出反驳了
   
   卧艹这帮人辩论都是标准的论文体,我好像看到坑爹的review邮件扑面而来”不好意思,你这篇论文我们reject了“妈的,为什么不论证下飞鱼 08年拿8块,4年后毛都没这个现象呢Nature系列太多了我擦,自然杂志这是蛋疼了哎
   你好歹研究下世界上到底有没有无法被任何现有仪器检出的兴奋剂嘛
   
   就这四个问答小学生都能作好吧评论是各种打脸啊……学术讨论而已,不应带有过多的政治感情来阅读
   
   学术讨论而已,不应带有过多的政治感情来阅读
   
   如果是学术讨论的话,基本的数据都搞错,这篇文章只有被审稿人抽脸然后扔进垃圾堆的份,而实际上也是如此。比较严谨的一个东西。I just want to add this: Phelps improved 4+ seconds in his 200 fly between 14-15 years old. Ian Thorpe also had a similar performance improvement. Ye is now 16. She was 160 cm in height and now 170 cm. Human biology also play a role she gets stronger and bigger naturally. in a 400 IM that has more room for improvement, with good training she got in Australia.
   
   In both the 400 IM and 200 IM finals, Ye were behind until freestyle. Well I guess there is "drug" that just enhances freestyle, but not the backstroke, breast, and fly. Does that make sense? Also, it is not professional to only mention that 'her showing in the last 50 metres, which she swam faster than US swimmer Ryan Lochte did when he won gold in the mena™s 400 IM'. The whole fact is that Ye is more than 23 second slower than Lochte in 400 IM. Plus, Freestyle isn't Lochte's best leg, but it is Shiwen's best leg. Lochte had a huge lead on the field, and almost coasted to the finish. He wasn't pressured by the field to go all out that last few meters.
   
   And before we get into the fact there's no way a woman should be able to come close to man's time for a final leg of 50m. May I present the following:
   
   纯转一位网友的打脸文虽然我感觉这位哥们可能审稿审魔怔了,但是他几乎把这篇狗屁不通的文章全驳回去了
   
   In a sport event that 0.1 sec can be the difference between the gold and silver medal, I see no reason that 5.38 sec can be treated as 7 sec.
   
    Second, as previously pointed out, Ye is only 16 years old and her body is still developing. Bettering oneself by 5 sec over two years may seem impossible for an adult swimmer, but certainly happens among youngsters. For regular people including the author it may be hard to imagine what an elite swimmer can achieve as he or she matures, combined with scientific and persistent training. But
    Third, to compare Ryan Lochte's last 50m to Ye's is a textbook example of what we call to cherry pick your data. Yes, Lochte is slower than Ye in the last 50m, but (as pointed out by Zhenxi) Lochte has a huge lead in the first 300m so that he chose to not push himself too hard to conserve energy for latter events (whether this conforms to the Olympic spirit and the "use one's best efforts to win a match" requirement that the BWF has recently invoked to disqualify four badminton pairs is another topic worth discussing, probably not in Nature, though). On the contrary, Ye is trailing behind after the first 300m and relies on freestyle, which she has an edge, to win the game. Failing to mention this strategic difference, as well asPut aside the gender argument, I believe this is still a leading question that implies the reader that something fishy is going on.
   
    Fourth, another example of cherry picking.As it turns out if we are just talking about the last 50m in a 400m IM, Lochter would not have been the example to use if I were the author. What kind of scientific rigorousness that author is trying to demonstrate here? Is it logical that if Lochter is the champion, we should assume he leads in every split? That would be a terrible way to teach the public how science works.
   
    Fifth, which is the one I oppose the most. The author quotes Tucks and implies that a drug test can not rule out the possibility of doping. Is this kind of agnosticism what Nature really wants to educate its readers? By that standard I estimate that at least half of the peer-reviewed scientific papers in Nature should be retracted. How can one convince the editors and reviewers that their proposed theory works for every possible case? One cannot. One chooses to apply the theory to typical examples and demonstrate that in (hopefully) all scenarios considered the theory works to a degree, and that should warrant a publication, until a counterexample is found. I could imagine that the author has a skeptical mind which is critical to scientific thinking, but that would be put into better use if he can write a real peer-reviewed paper that discusses the odds of Ye doping on a highly advanced non-detectable drug that the Chinese has come up within the last 4 years (they obviously did not have it in Beijing, otherwise why not to use it and woo the audience at home?), based on data and rational derivation. This paper, however, can be interpreted as saying that all athletes are doping, and the authorities are just not good enough to catch them. That may be true, logically, but definitely will not make the case if there is ever a hearing by FINA to determine if Ye has doped. To ask the question that if it is possible to false negative in a drug test looks like a rigged question to me. Of course it is, other than the drug that the test is not designed to detect, anyone who has taken Quantum 101 will tell you that everything is probabilistic in nature, and there is a probability for the drug in an athlete's system to tunnel out right at the moment of the test. A slight change as it may be, should we disregard all test results because of it? Let’s be practical and reasonable. And accept WADA is competent at its job.
   
    Sixth, and the last point I would like to make, is that the out-of-competition drug test is already in effect, which the author failed to mention. Per WADA president’s press release5, drug testing for olympians began at least 6 months prior to the opening of the London Olympic. Furthermore there are 107 athletes who are banned from this Olympic for doping. That maybe the reason that “everyone will pass at the Olympic games. Hardly anyone fails in competition testing”? Because those who did dope are already sanctioned? The author is free to suggest that a player could have doped beforehand and fool the test at the game, but this possibility certainly is ruled out for Ye.
   
    If you want to cover a story of a suspected doping from a scientific point of view, be impartial and provide all the facts for the reader to judge. You are entitled to your interpretation of the facts, and the expression thereof in your piece, explicitly or otherwise, but only showing evidences which favor your argument is hardly good science or journalism. Such an article in a journal like Nature is not an appropriate example of how scientific research or report should be done.
   
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   这尼玛就是一篇新闻而已,又不是论文,跟马桶或者网易开个场所让大家喷一样,都是喷喷更健康,这不过那里的喷子稍微高级一点而已。
   
   而且这东西狗屁不通,基本的历史数据都是错的。那里的喷子才是真正的讲究干货打脸,这中国学者扇脸扇的,作者脸得肿成猪头了

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