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【和谐讨论】 席文:中医不是科学,西医也不是。

整理时间:2013-05-08 11:26 来源:www.vimiy.com 作者:编辑 点击:

【楼主】2013-05-05 17:03

» 席文:中医不是科学,西医也不是。
    Reflections on the Situation in the People’s Republic of China, 1987
    中华人民共和国中医状况的反思,1987
    
    
    
    
    I spent the first six months of 1987 in Beijing reading rare historical sources at the Academy of Traditional Chinese Medicine in Beijing. I was given every aid and courtesy by my colleagues in the China Institute for Medical History and Literature, including an office, which made it possible for me to invite graduate students, physicians and scholars to drop in freely for informal conversation. My wife and I lived in the Sino-Japanese Friendship Hospital, the largest general hospital in China, with a large proportion of professional staff members trained in Chinese medicine. We got to know a few of them fairly well. At the Academy I also gave a series of lectures and seminars to which historians, most of them medical practitioners, were invited from all over China.
    
    1987年上半年,我在北京的中医研究院查阅珍本文献资料,医学史文献研究所的同行们给了我全力的帮助和照顾,还分我一间办公室,使我能邀请研究生、医生和学者们随时来聊天。我和我妻子住在中日友好医院,中国最大综合医院,里面有很大一部分专业人员受过中医的训练。我们与其中的一些人建立了良好的关系。期间我在中研院还作了一系列的讲座和研讨会,邀请全国的史学家来参加。大多数受邀者本身就是中医生。
    
    
    My observation deepened some concerns expressed in Traditional Medicine in Contemporary China, which I finished writing in 1984. I found among medical policy-makers, physicians, and, for that matter, historians, little awareness of medical change as a worldwide phenomenon, or of what tensions between old and new systems had been resolved or had proved intractable in other countries. Social and political issues of Chinese health care are never publicly debated, and are practically unstudied by historians and others. Like all that lies within the province of the Party, such matters are risky except for the few who have the power to decide. These few, on the other hand, can make their decisions without necessarily being fully informed about the problems ordinary people face.
    
    我的所见所闻加深了我在《当代中国的传统医学》(完成于1984年)中的一些思虑。我发现在医疗政策制定者,医生,以及相关的历史学家中,很少有人对世界范围内医学的变化,在其它国家新旧体制之间哪些矛盾可以解决或哪些矛盾无法解决这些现象有所了解。中国医疗体系的社会和政治问题从未公开讨论过,也几乎从未被历史学家和其他学者研究过。这些课题有一定的风险,除了一少部分有决定权的人。但另一方面,这些人在作决定时却可能对普通老百姓所面临的问题并不充分了解。
    
    
    In the West a balanced view of the strengths and weaknesses of biomedicine is becoming the norm. I seldom found traditional physicians well informed. Everyone, laymen included, agreed that Western technologies are powerful, and that chemical drugs are better for acute emergencies than traditional ones, but had more side effects. It was often said that biomedical therapy is better for relieving symptoms, but treatment by a skilled Chinese doctor is more likely to result in a cure. It was rare to find an estimate more penetrating than that. Most of the usual claims by spokesmen for modern medicine were accepted at face value.
    
    在西方,生物医学的有长处也有不足之处这种观定已几成定论。(在中国)我却很少发现具有比较均衡的认识的中医生。所有人,包括普通人,都一致认为西方科技很强大,化学药品对急症比中药有效,但副作用也多。一种流行的说法是,西医对减轻病症有效,但有经验的中医可以根治疾病。很难发现比这种说法更深刻的分析,现代医学的代言人的大多数观点也被普遍接受。
    
    
    This became particularly clear at one of the seminars. I had proposed a topic that everybody was debating at the time, namely “ Is Chinese Medicine a Science?” traditional physicians know that their practice is ostentatiously supported by the government, which has silenced what before the Cultural Revolution was loud and powerful opposition. They are not entirely sure what would happen without such support. They justify this support by finding evidence that Chinese medicine is as good as the imported article. They know that in the eyes of those who determine what resources will be available ( for instance, the ratio of students in Chinese-style to those in Western-style medical schools), the criteria are those of modern science-not always well understood, but always hanging over the heads of traditional practitioners.
    
    这种现象在我的一次研讨会上表现的很典型。我提出了一个当时人人都在争论的讨论题,即:中医是科学吗?中医生都知道,中医得到政府的大力支持,文革前对中医的激烈的反对意见都被压下去了。但他们不能肯定,一旦政府的支持停止了该怎么办。他们为支持中医提供的理由是寻找中医与舶来品一样有效的证据。他们知道,在有权决定资源分配(比如,医学院中学中医和学西医的学生的比例)的那些人眼里,依据的标准是现代科学——虽然这些标准并没有完全被理解,但却时时悬在中医生的头上。
    
    
    I began the seminar with two propositions:
    
    1. Chinese medicine is not a science, and neither is Western medicine.
    2. Aspects of Chinese medicine are regularly evaluated by the criteria of biomedicine, but traditional criteria are practically never used to assess biomedical practice. This situation, I said, reminded me of the “unequal treaties” China was forced to sign with the imperialist powers in the nineteenth century.
    
    我在那次研讨会开始时提出两个论点:
    
    1、中医不是科学,西医也不是科学。
    2、人们一直用西医的标准来评价中医,而很少有人用中医的标准来评价西医。我说,这种现状让我联想到十九世纪中国与西方被迫签定的不平等条约。
    
    
    The debate was predictably lively. Anyone practising or studying Chinese medicine in China is used to defending the idea that it is a science. The notion that biomedicine itself is not a science left the participants, with the exception of a few perennially skeptical graduate students, stymied. I argued that for most historians and many physicians, medicine is an art of caring for suffering people that mostly just uses knowledge from biology, chemistry, physics, etc., and that a physician who approached a patient like a biological scientist approaching an experimental animal could not provide good care. My point did not have much impact. Tossing away the ideal of Science is too dangerous, even for the sake of discussion.
    
    可以想象讨论有多热烈,中国的中医生或中医研究者历来主张中医是科学。除了几个对什么都怀疑的研究生外,西医不是科学这个观点让绝大多数与会者目瞪口呆。我的观点是,对大多数历史学家和很多医生来说,医学是一门照料病人的技艺,这门技艺运用了很多生物、化学、物理等的知识。但如果一个医生用生物学家处理实验动物的方法来诊治病人,他就不可能提供良好的医疗效果。我的论点没什么人能接受,抛弃科学的理念太危险,即使仅仅是为了讨论的缘故。
    
    
    The second point did not fare better. I found erudite scholars asking me, rather than telling me, how Chinese medicine could possibly be used to improve Western medicine. There was little response to my reply that conspicuous weaknesses of the latter might be remedied as a result of understanding strengths of the former-for instance,its close fit with the way Chinese patients experience illness, the concern of physicians with the whole somatic and emotional constellation of the patient, and their habit of considering disease as an evolving and ramifying process of which all the significant outcomes must be anticipated in therapy.
    
    第二个论点的遭遇也好不到哪里去。一些学养深厚的学者们问我,而不是告诉我,中医怎么可能用来改进西医?我回答说,对前者的优势(比如,它与中国病人患病的经历方法是一脉相承的,中医对病人的身体和七情六欲的整体的把握,以及他们习惯于把疾病看成是一个变化和互相关联的过程,而在治疗中对这个过程的所有有意义的现象都要有所掌握)的理解可以用来弥补后者的明显的弱点,但对此几乎没什么人感兴趣。
    
    
    Here and elsewhere I was often told that what mattered was not such intangibles but the technology that Chinese medicine commanded-acupuncture, moxibustion, -natural drugs, and so no. Few would agree with me that such techniques are easily appropriated by people who do not consider the rest worth keeping. Few saw that this view of traditional medicine as a mere collection of technical resources would leave no future for its sophisticated functional view of body processes, its subtle diagnostic reasoning, its live interplay of classical doctrine and clinical experience, and so on. I found a great deal of enthusiasm for computer diagnosis, uninformed about the criticisms levelled in the West against that aid to medical industrialization. None of these enthusiasts admitted that there is any significant difference between a reasoned diagnosis based on examination of a whole, living person and a decision tree based on a list of symptoms.
    
    不仅是这里,在其它地方也一样,人们总是告诉我,有用的不是中医理论里那些抽象的东西,而是具体的技术,比如针灸、草药,等等。我认为这些技术性的东西很容易掌握,甚至被那些主张抛弃中医理论的人掌握,但很少有人同意我的这一观点。很少有人意识到,这种把中医看成是一堆技术资源的组合的观点,会毁了未来中医里精深的对人体功能性的认识、中医微妙的辩证推理以及生动的理论与实践的相辅相成,等等。我发现很多人对计算机诊断很感兴趣,却不了解西方对这种医学工业化的工具的批评。这些人也说不出建立在检查一个完整的活人上的诊断,与基于一组症状的决策树(decision tree)之间有什么重大区别。
    
    
    Finally, then, there is the question of whether such differences will continue to be crucial. The doubts I had expressed in the book were reinforced by many conversations. Young doctors told me again and again that they do not really grasp manifestation type determination(bianzheng), and prefer to diagnose by symptoms. Medical school, they said, did not give them a deep enough understanding of yin-yang and the Five Phases to make them confident about using theses concepts. They are thus driven to diagnose on the basis of what seem to them more concrete and objective Western criteria. They are aware that it is impossible to work out a traditional course of therapy on the basis of a biomedical diagnosis, but that is the best they can do, and they do it somehow.
    
    最后还有一点,这些区别还能继续起到决定性作用吗?我与很多人进行的交谈加深了我在那本书中的疑问。年轻的中医生一再告诉我,他们根本就不真正理解辩证施治,而宁愿由病症来诊断。他们说,中医学院没有提供对阴阳五行的深刻认识,因而他们无法运用这些概念。因此,他们只能用具体的,客观的西方标准来下诊断。他们知道,设计一种基于西医诊断上的中医治疗是不可能的,但他们只能这么干,而他们在某种程度上就是这么作的。
    
    
    This atrophy of traditional doctrine is not their fault. As children they did not learn to think about the world in terms of ancient Chinese philosophy. In school they learned physics, chemistry, and biology instead. By the time a new physician begins practice, chances are that she has never read through the Inner Canon or any other medical book, much less the old philosophic books that were the basis even of elementary education in China before the twentieth century. The young doctors who spoke to me frankly were determined to meet the heavy demands of good practice, but few felt well prepared.
    
    中医理论的这种萎缩不是他们的错,他们从小就没有接触到中国古典哲学的世界观。在学校里他们学的是物理、化学和生物。当一个人完成医生的培训,开始工作的时候,她可能连内经都没读过,更不用说那些二十世纪以前作为中国文化基础的哲学书籍。那些与我坦率地交谈过的年轻中医们决心要努力完成一名好医生所要负担的职责,但很少人认为自己有很扎实的基础知识。
    
    
    But there is a still larger question, mentioned above, that no one can answer. Many ordinary people educated before 1949 prefer Chinese medicine because they use yin-yang and the Five Phases, not the language of anatomy and physiology, to understand their bodies. What will happen when they are gone?What will Chinese medicine, assuming it survives for another generation, have to say to patients who see their bodies as a collection of physical and chemical processes? My experience left me still wondering, still with no clue to a final answer.
    
    上面还提出了一个更大的问题,却没人能回答。那就是,很多1949年前受教育的普通中国人更愿意去看中医,因为这些人习惯于用阴阳五行的思想去理解人体,而不是西方的解剖学,生理学。那么这批人走了之后是个什么局面?下一代的中医,假如中医能生存到那时的话,用什么语言与病人交谈呢?这一代人对身体的认识是用物理及化学过程来描述的。我的经历,让我对这个问题仍然找不到最后的答案。
    
    
    American Journal of Acupuncture, vol.18,no.4, 1990, 341-343.
    
    
    本文作者席文(Nathan Sivin)现为宾夕法尼亚大学名誉教授,主攻中国科技史、传统中医学、中国哲学及中国宗教。与李约瑟同为知名汉学家。
    
    原文链接
    转载自:译言网 译者:柴桥钟家人
    


网友评论2013-05-05 17:06


    又要引站么
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:09


    震天的战鼓在再次敲响!
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:10


    那我7年学的医学是什么 巫术? 病人都自己好的?
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:11


    所谓“西医”即现代医学,所凭借的就是物理学、化学、药学和生理卫生学甚至社会学心理学等等诸多学科的发展而逐步发展的,席文说西医不算科学这个叫偷换概念,有点白马非马的意味
    
    至于中医部分我不发表任何意见,不引战..........
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:12


    ........这老外居心叵测....隐隐约约的有淫魔的样子!
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:13


    我现在看到汉学家这仨字就慎得慌
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:13


    说的最好的就是人们总是用西医标准来看中医,却不用中医标准看西医
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:15


    中医能治好(自愈)某些病
    西医能治好某些病
    
    西医对中医说:你的理论和我不一样,你的不科学
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:23


    又来又来了
    前段时间战了还不够吗
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:23


    超越越甜党咸党,端碗党和放碗党之间仇恨的号角吹响啦
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:25


    有观点无论正,几无价值
    
    “在西方,生物医学的有长处也有不足之处这种观定已几成定论。”这句话完全就是空话,真正有科学素养的人不会把科学当成真理。
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:28


    ……可这哥们都不是学医的啊。
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:31


    Reply to Reply Post by hzs213hzp (2013-05-05 17:13)
    
    这人是搞科学史研究的。其实是个文科生……
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:33


    汉学家的东西么
    另外,能告诉我为什么现代医学不是科学么?
    是因为不可证伪,不可观测,不可重复么?
    是没有普适性么?
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:34


    尼玛搞史学研究的有自信在这讲科学?这通篇的抒情散文哪里科学了?
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:35


    这都月经战了...
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:37


    汉学家,呵呵。
    文科生,呵呵。
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:39


    方舟子:都让开 老子最科学 你们都是伪科学 你们全家都是!
    
网友评论2013-05-05 17:42


    Reply Post by 東方神乞 (2013-05-05 17:15):
    
    中医能治好(自愈)某些病
    西医能治好某些病
    
    西医对中医说:你的理论和我不一样,你的不科学
    
    嘿。。nga信仰科学的人可不是一个两个啊。。
    

    
    
    

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