» 从PISA测试看中国教育鸿沟,城市农村的不平等,就是洋人认为除去上海整体而言PISA测试中国不如国外。
    Shanghai (CNN) -- So, they apparently did it again.
    For the second time in a decade, 15-year-olds in Shanghai have scored at the top of the PISA global education assessment, ranking number one in the world in reading, math and science
    
    上海(CNN)——很显然，他们再一次做到了。
    上海15岁的青少年十年后第二次在PISA全球教育评价中在阅读，数学和科学方面排名世界第一。
    
    "In Shanghai, you have nine out of ten students telling you, 'It depends on me. If I invest the effort, my teachers are going to help me to be successful,'" Schleicher tells me during a taping of CNN's "On China" on location in the city.
    But one thing is for certain. The results are not representative of a nation. China as a whole does not take the PISA exam. Data on a number of Chinese cities and provinces is not yet published by PISA. China as a whole is expected to be included in the 2015 assessment.
    Data from the Rural Education Action Program (REAP) at Stanford University in the United States provides a stark picture of how Shanghai's education success is not repeated in China's less wealthy, rural interior.
    While 84% of high school grads in Shanghai go to college, less than 5% of China's rural poor make it to university
    
    “上海的学生十个中有九个会告诉你，‘这取决于我。如果我投入努力，我的老师将会帮助我成功，’”施莱克尔在CNN的“On China”城市外景节目录制中如是说。但是有一点是肯定的。这个结果不代表一个国家(的水平)。中国作为一个整体没有参加PISA测试。中国许多省份的城市的数据尚未被PISA公布。中国作为一个整体有望在2015年的评价中被包括进去。
    来自美国斯坦福大学的农村教育行动(REAP)的数据提供了一个冷酷而真实的画面，上海教育的成功并没有在中国不富裕的农村内地被复制。
    虽然在上海84%的高中毕业生进入大学，然而只有不到5%的中国农村贫困学生成功进入大学。
    
    High school attendance is just 40% in poor, rural areas of China.
    And as they struggle with poverty and debate the opportunity cost of simply going to class, a significant number of rural students start dropping out in middle school.
    Why are students dropping out?
    Across the world's second biggest economy, the education system is vastly unequal. But incredibly, Schleicher tells me a child from a poor background in China has a better chance to be well educated than poor, rural students in other countries.
    "The learning environment you would encounter there, the quality is a lot higher than what you'd encounter in a similar context almost anywhere else in the world," he says.
    
    中国的农村贫困地区高中的入学率只有40%。
    并且因为他们(农村居民)为了谋生以及对于就学机会所需成本的纠结，农村学生的数量开始大量下降。
    为什么学生要辍学？
    这个世界第二大经济体的教育体制是极其地不平等。但是难以置信的是，施莱克尔告诉我说中国有着贫困背景的孩子相比其他国家的贫困学生会有更好的机会受到良好教育。
    “你将置身的学习环境和质量在类似的情况下会远远高过世界其他任何地方。”他说。
    
    Seated across from Schleicher during the "On China" panel discussion in Shanghai is Andrea Pasinetti, the founder of Teach for China -- a non-profit that brings graduates from China and the U.S. to teach at some of China's most under-resourced schools.
    Pasinetti reveals a particularly bullish view on rural education in China: "A lot of these (rural) schools tend to be boarding schools. So the school provides not only a context for classroom instruction, it also provides a context for personal growth and exploration."
    Pasinetti's views are distinctly out of sync with that of educator Jiang Xueqin, currently the Deputy Principal of Tsinghua University High School.
    "Kids in the rural regions are at a huge disadvantage. Teachers and school are under-resourced," he says.
    "The other issue is that in the rural regions, there's a lot of movement so parents move to the cities leaving their kids behind in the schools. So there isn't that parental support and guidance that kids need to thrive.
    "Rural schools are under a lot of cultural stigma. No one in China believes they will succeed."
    Though Jiang's assessment is in line with what has generally been reported about China's rural education challenges, Pasinetti calls it an "irresponsible perception."
    "It is a huge misconception that local communities aren't invested in the education of their children and grandchildren," says the Teach for China founder.
    
    在“On China”小组讨论期间坐在施莱克尔对面的是安德烈·帕西涅提，一个把中美两国毕业生带往中国一些教育资源最不足的学校支教的非营利组织，中国教育的创始人。帕西涅提揭示了一个对中国农村教育非常看好的观点：“很多这些(农村)学校往往是寄宿学校，因此，学校不仅提供了课堂教学环境，它也提供了一个个人成长和探索的环境。”
    帕西涅提的观点明显是和教育家江学勤，清华附中的副校长是一致的。
    “在农村地区的孩子有一个巨大的劣势就是教师和学校资源的不足。”他说。
    “另一个问题是，在农村地区有很多父母搬到城市而把孩子留在学校，因此没有孩子茁壮成长所需的父母的支持和指导。”
    “农村的学校在很多的文化烙印之下，没有人相信它们会成功。”
    虽然江的观点与一般关于中国农村教育挑战的报道一致，但帕西涅提称之为“不负责任”。
    “当地社会不投资他们子女和孙辈的教育是巨大的错误。”中国教育的创始人说。
    
    "I speak to grandmothers who are illiterate, who live often on two or three dollars a day... who would do anything and stop at nothing to make sure that the child they have in their home is able to achieve a great education.
    "The big difficulty is that oftentimes, they don't know where to start."
    The Chinese government is attempting to tackle the challenge. In 2010, China released a 10-year national education reform plan. Among other objectives, it plans to focus less on tests and get the best teachers into the rural communities that desperately need them.
    "Every discussion you have with Chinese officials about education reform revolves around the question of equity," says Pasinetti.
    But Jiang is not optimistic about the prospects for education equity in China.
    
    “我跟一个每天只用两到三美元竭尽全力确保他们家的孩子能够得到好的教育的奶奶谈话。
    “难题是通常情况下，他们不知从何开始。”
    中国政府正试图解决这个问题。2010年，中国公布了十年国家教育改革计划。在其他的方面，它计划放宽对考试的注重，并且让最好的老师去那些迫切需要他们的农村。
    “每个你和中国官员关于教育改革的讨论都是围绕着公平的问题，”帕西涅提说，但是江不对中国教育的前景表示乐观。
    
    "Over the years it will become worse and worse," he says. "The rich and powerful are choosing to detach themselves from the traditional school system."
    Jiang sees a China where the wealthy will move education resources to a system of new private schools that cater only to them.
    And that is the dark future China must avoid.
    "If you don't change the school system now, you'll get people buying themselves out of it," says Schleicher.
    "That's basically the challenge that China has."
    
    “多年之后，它会越来越糟，”他说，“富人和当权者会选择把它从传统教育体系中脱离出去。”
    江看到中国的富人将把教育资源转移到一个新的只迎合他们需要的私立学校体系之中。
    而那是中国必须避免的黑暗未来。
    “如果你不改变现在的学校体制，你会让人民为它买单。”施莱克尔说。
    “这是中国面临的主要挑战。”
    评论翻译:
    原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：大唐皇太子 转载请注明出处
    论坛地址：http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-257124-1-1.htmlcouchloc • 4 days ago −
    The point to notice is that China ranks 1st in the world in the PISA exam and the US ranks........36th. We like to think we are global leaders but we're not. There is something we can be learning about education from the Chinese to help our own system it seems.
    
    一点要注意的是，中国在PISA考试中排名世界第一，而美国排名第36。我们喜欢认为我们是全球领导者，但我们不是。似乎我们可以向中国人学习教育的一些东西来帮助我们自己的(教育)系统。
    
    harro_prease couchloc • 4 days ago
    it's really the Confucian culture. look at all the top performing countries like South Korea Japan Singapore and regions like Hong kong taiwan and Shanghai they are all Confucian societies who stress the importance of education.
    
    它真的是儒家文化(的原因)。看看所有顶尖的国家比如韩国日本新加坡和地区比如香港台湾和上海。他们都是强调教育重要性的儒家社会。
    
    maverick harro_prease • 4 days ago
    They are also genetically smart.
    WiSeWoRdS maverick • 4 days ago −SHUT UP ABOUT GENETICS! ASIANS HAVE THESE SCORES DUE TO ETHICS AND EFFORT! I know this due to two simple things; I am roughly 60% Asian, and my Chinese mother instilled these values into me. I'm 14, among the highest scoring students in my school, and will hopefully be attending GSMST next year.
    Google GSMST if you don't know it
    
    “他们是遗传方面的聪明”
    遗传学什么闭嘴！亚洲人有这样的分数是因为道德规范和努力！我知道这是因为这两个简单的事情。我大体上算是60%的亚洲人，我的中国妈妈灌输这些价值观给我。我14岁，在我的学校中分数最高，并有望参加明年的GSMST。
    Google GSMST如果你不知道的话。
    
    
    (以下评论更新于12月24日，译者：哲学的慰藉)
    
    WiSeWoRdS maverick • 5 days ago
    SHUT UP ABOUT GENETICS! ASIANS HAVE THESESCORES DUE TO ETHICS AND EFFORT! I know this due to two simple things; I amroughly 60% Asian, and my Chinese mother instilled these values into me. I'm14, among the highest scoring students in my school, and will hopefully beattending GSMST next year.
    Google GSMST if you don't know it.
    
    不要再谈什么遗传学了！亚洲学生取得这么好的成绩，完全是因为伦理和努力！两件事情促使我有这样的感想；我有60%的成分是亚洲人，我的华裔母亲把这些价值观灌输给了我。我今年14岁，在学校里成绩是最好的学生之一，明年我有可能去全美十佳公立高中之一的GSMST学校学习。
    如果你不知道这所学校是什么情况，那么谷歌一下吧。
    
    mateo WiSeWoRdS • 5 days ago
    Of course it's not genetics. That doesn'tmake any sense. Shanghai is not genetically smarter than any of the poorprovinces in China.
    
    当然这不是遗传学的问题。上海学生在遗传上并不比中国其他贫穷省份的学生更优越。
    
    Sweet Mango mateo • 4 days ago
    It's the culture. Not only Chinese but theAsian Indians as well. If a child doesn't make an "A", highest grade,the child are shamed and the parents see their kids are lazy.
    
    这关乎文化。不仅中国人如此，亚裔印度人也是如此。如果一个学生没有取得好成绩，那亚裔学生自己都觉得难堪，父母也会以为自己的孩子是懒惰的。
    
    mateo Sweet Mango • 4 days ago
    Most Indians in India have a very low levelof education by Western standards. If the whole country of India valuededucation to the same extent as the Indian community in the USA, things wouldbe a lot different.
    
    如果以西方标准来评判，印度大多数学生的受教育水平并不高。如果整个印度国家也像美国印度社区那样重视教育的话，那么结果将很不一样的。
    
    scott bleyle Sweet Mango • 3 days ago
    Wonder what the true suicide rate is?
    
    不知道自杀率是多少？
    
    TYRANNASAUR mateo • 4 days ago
    You're correct here mateo.... if I spend$1,000,000 on my house and my neighbor spends $10,000 on his it's going toappear that I'm richer....same in China...spend lots of money educating the fewrather than spending lots of money to educate the many makes it look good intheir chosen areas.
    
    Mateo你说得对。。。如果我花100万美元建造房子，而我邻居花1万美元建造房子，那当然显得我比较富有。。在中国同理如此。。。花许多钱在少数人身上，当然比花许多钱在多数人身上看起来要好很多。
    
    mateo TYRANNASAUR • 4 days ago
    Are you suggesting that the Chinese governmentspends more money on Shanghai than other provinces just to confuse foreignersthat look at PISA scores and don't realize that Shanghai is only 1% of theeducation system?
    Shanghai spends more money on educationthan most other provinces because Shanghai is much richer than most otherprovinces. It's the same reason that Massachusettes spends a lot more money oneducation than Alabama.
    
    你的意思是说中国把大量资金花在上海身上，而花在其他省份的要少，以此来迷惑外国人，而且这些外国人根本也不知道上海只占中国教育系统的1%？
    上海之所以比其他省份在教育上投入更多钱，是因为上海更富有。与此同理，马萨诸塞州花在教育上的钱比亚拉巴马州要多。
    
    Mantismech mateo • 3 days ago
    Chinese government, i.e. Communist Party,spends very little on education. China's education system is capitalism in itspurest form. If you have the money you can pay for a secondary education. Themore you can pay, the better the school. The same principle applies to China'shealth care system.
    
    中国政府(即共产党)花在教育上的钱少的可怜。中国的教育系统完全是资本主义的。如果你有钱你可以上更好的学校。中国的医疗系统也是这样的。
    
    CharlieSmith mateo • 4 days ago
    First, genetically, people in Shanghai aresmarter than
    anyone in China and now anyone in theworld.
    OECD also considers money issue indetermining the level of education achieved in China. Of course, with money,you get good teachers and infrastructures, OECD discovered that students frompoor provinces achieved OECD average. This is almost impossible because OECDaverage is considered very high by world standard and students from poorprovinces in China were able to achieve that. Remarkable.
    
    首先，在基因遗传上，上海人比其他中国人以及世界其他人都要聪明。在评判中国的教育水平时，经合组织还考虑了钱的因素。当然，有了钱，你就可以获得更好的教育和设施，经合组织发现那些来自贫穷省份的学生都取得了经合组织的平均水平。这几乎是不可能的，因为经合组织的平均水平以全球标准来看都已经高了，而中国贫穷省份的学生尽然取得了这样的水平，实在厉害。
    
    mateo CharlieSmith • 4 days ago
    12 Chinese provinces took the PISA testsbut did not release scores. The head of PISA said some regions of theseprovinces had scores close to the OECD average. We need actual data todetermine how close these provinces are to the OECD average.
    
    中国12个省份参与了国际学生评估项目的测试，但并没有把分数公布出来。该项目的负责人说有些中国省份的学生取得了接近经合组织的水平。我们需要实际的数据才能知道到底有多接近。
    
    CharlieSmith mateo • 4 days ago
    OECD officials spent 1 year investigatingand then published the results of 12 provinces. If you want actual data, youneed to spend 1 year to analyze it because that's what OECD officials had done.
    
    经合组织的官员花了一年时间调查，然后发布了这12个省份的调查结果。如果你想得到实际的数据，那你得花一年时间来分析，因为经合组织就是这么做的。
    
    mateo CharlieSmith • 4 days ago
    No, they did not publish any data from the12 provinces. The Chinese did not allow the data to be published. You areeither confused or lying.
    
    没有，他们没有发布有关这12个省份的任何数据。中国人不允许发表这个数据。你不是搞错了就是在撒谎。
    
    CharlieSmith mateo • 4 days ago
    OECD officials did not publish all the databut the results of their 1 year investigation, including 12 provinces. You justdon't have the skill and experience to analyze the data, only OECD officialshave the skill sets.
    
    经合组织并没有发布所有的数据，只是发布了1年调查的结果，包括这12个省份。你根本不具备这样的技能和经验来分析数据，而经合组织具备。
    
    mateo CharlieSmith • 4 days ago
    No, they did not publish any data orresults from any of the 12 provinces. Why do you keep repeating such stupidlies?
    
    Many talented statisticians work for theOECD, but there are thousands of equally talented statisticians that work forother organizations, governments, and businesses. Analyzing student test scoresis fairly simple, and does not require any unusual skill sets.
    
    没有，经合组织没有发布有关这12省份的任何数据和调查结果，为什么你老是重提这种愚蠢的谎言？
    许多有才华的统计员为经合组织工作，但是其他机构、政府和企业也具备很多这样具备才华的统计员。分析学生的测试结果是相当简单的，并不需要什么特别的技巧。
    
    CharlieSmith mateo • 4 days ago
    You are wrong. OCED officials have to visitthese students personally and that's why it took 1 year to investigate, analyzeand the published.
    
    你错了。经合组织得亲自拜访这些学生，所以才花了1年时间来调查、分析和出版。
    
    mateo CharlieSmith • 4 days ago
    If you seriously think it is published,where is it? How does someone find this mysterious publication?
    Visiting students does not help the analyzethe data. You obviously have no understanding of statistics.
    
    如果你真的以为这些结果出版出来了，那在哪里？要如何找到这个神秘的出版物？
    拜访学生并不能帮助分析数据。你对统计学一点都不懂。
    
    CharlieSmith mateo • 4 days ago
    As I said, OECD did not publish all thedata but the result.
    By the way, analyzing statistics is notgood enough, interviewing and talking to each individual student is veryimportant to have a complete picture. 1 year is a long time to analyzestatistics.
    
    正如我前面所说的，经合组织并没有出版所有的数据，只是出版了分析结果。
    还有，单单分析数据并不够，采访并与学生交谈才能获知全貌。花一年来分析统计数据，那已经相当长了。
    
    BArt WiSeWoRdS • 4 days ago
    I agree it is cultural. However, it couldbe genetics in that they have the general level of intelligence to realize thevalue of hard work. Over here when a kid does poor we blame the teacher andschool system. The reality is that the kid is not doing any work.
    
    我同意这是文化在起作用。然而，基因遗传可能也起到了一定的作用，因为他们在智力上秉承努力工作的价值观。而在美国，一个小孩子如果学习成绩不好，我们就会责怪老师和教育系统。而现实是孩子自己根本就没有认真学习。
    
    Disqualifyer BArt • 4 days ago
    wait a second, if a parent just choses toplace all the responsibility on the kid, he or she is not going to do so well: itis a system, and a team collaboration; from parents to teachers, to theeducation system, down to the child, and the curriculum. simplicity doesn'twork here - if the majority of Americans don't understand what I've written, nowonder the system here in America is lost.
    
    等等，如果一位父母把所有责任都强加在孩子身上，那么他或她是没办法表现良好的：这是一套系统，一种团队合作；从家长到老师，从教育系统，到孩子，再到整个课程安排，所以不能简单化——如果大多数的美国人都不知道我在说什么，那难怪美国的教育系统在没落了。
    
    marsilius BArt • 4 days ago
    Practically every human being has goodenough *genetics* to be intellectually capable of "realiz the valueof hard work." If you were trying to be funny, in implicitly calling thatinto question, I'm sorry I didn't recognize your attempt!
    
    实际上，每个人在基因遗传上都可以“秉承努力工作的价值观。”如果你出于搞笑目的而否认这样的事实，那么抱歉我不同意你的说法。
    
    Rev WiSeWoRdS • 3 days ago
    Actually genetics does have a part to play,but not in differentiating between societies. Every society will have a certainnumber of people who are outliers from the norm whom you can classify as morecapable of the mind or geniuses when compared to the average populace. A certainpercentage of a population will be born as geniuses, like say 1 out of 1000 or10000 people. Considering how China and Asia in general has such a hugepopulation compared to the rest of the world, this would also mean that Chinahas more potential geniuses available as a nation. Of course, this only appliesif these individuals receive the proper education to take advantage of this.
    
    基因遗传因素确实起到了一定的作用，但这方面的作用并不是对社会进行区分。每个社会中都有一定数量的人比其他一般人来的出众。这一部分人天生就是人才，1000或者10000人中会出这么一个人。中国和亚洲人口比世界其他地区的人口要多，这意味着中国潜在人才的人数要比其他国家多。当然，前提是这部分人接受了良好的教育，从而能够发挥他们的才华。
    
    Mantismech WiSeWoRdS • 3 days ago
    Calm down! Not everyone knows what GSMSTstands for. There must be millions of acronyms out there. I do agree with youAsians score high on standard tests because of effort and hard work.
    
    冷静！不是每个人都知道GSMST这个缩写词是啥意思的。首字母缩略词不计其数啊。我认同亚洲学生因努力而获得高分数的看法。
    
    Dr. Tod P. WiSeWoRdS • 2 days ago
    Now you are a smart cookie! I am sure youknow that knowledge and experience gives wisdom and intelligence alone does notautomatically mean a person is wise. I have been having discussions with anAsian and she is quite persistent in her belief that Asians are geneticallymore intelligent based on test scores.
    Congrats on your test scores and keeplearning as much as you can, combine it with hands on like machining and otherskills and you will go way beyond others. Flex that imagination too, it isnecessary for creativity and invention. I also hope you take lots of thingsapart and put them back together to see how they work, build that database.Good luck and more power to you! I have been working intensely with my 2 yearold grandson to give him that leg up.
    
    你终于学聪明了！你肯定知道知识和经验赋予人智慧，智力高并不一定意味智慧高。我和一名亚洲人交流过，她以测试分数为依据，坚持认为亚洲人在基因遗传上更加聪明。
    恭喜你获得高分，继续努力学习，可以再接触工程机械方面的知识，或者学习其他技能，你就能远远的把别人甩在后面。还要发挥你的想象力，因为想象力对于创造和发明来说是非常重要的。我还想让你把某些东西都拆掉，然后再重新组装，看看这个东西是如何运作的，然后建立数据库。祝你好运，更加有活力！我已经花了两年时间来教授我2岁孙子这些事情了。
    
    PhantomFlash harro_prease • 5 days ago
    Sure, that's why europeans bagged asians in18th-20th century. because they weren't confucian enough back then, and the U.S.topped education in the early 20th century because we were so Confucius. Thetrue secret is parents who are desperate for children's success and strongdisciplined school system. Confucius only valued education in humanity, but hadlow regard for natural sciences and vocational education. And he had utterdisdain for business/finance education. Also, confucian culture tend todiscourage dissenting voice, something very crucial in advancement of science.
    
    当然，这就是欧洲人在18-20世纪打败亚洲人的原因所在了。因为当时的亚洲人还没那么孔子，美国在20世纪早期在教育上拔得头筹，也是因为当时的美国太孔子了。关键在于希望孩子成功的父母以及严格的学校系统。孔子只重视人文教育，对自然科学和职业教育不是很重视。他更是蔑视商业和金融教育。还有，孔子文化不鼓励异议，而异议对科学进步来说是非常重要的。
    
    Filipe PhantomFlash • 5 days ago
    I believe you are right about parentsambition and discipline however...Confucius had no regard to business/financeeducation? Thats a huge error in your argument. Confucius started to getnoticed not just as a teacher but when he took a post in government of the Lustate. He considered the proper training and education of government officialsas essential. He took long and careful considerations on the issues of businessand economic management specially in regards to ethics.
    
    我同意你父母野心和学校纪律的说法。。。然而，孔子不重视商业和金融教育？这你就大错特错了。孔子不仅以教师的身份闻名，也以鲁国官员的身份闻名。他认为对政府官员进行适当的培训和教育是很有必要的。他对商业和经济管理问题进行了长期和仔细的考量，尤其是涉及到伦理时。
    
    PhantomFlash Filipe • 4 days ago
    Confucius didn't think business/trade wasadding anything to the economy. He believed farmers to be the fundamentalbackbone of any successful nation, merely transporting same good from onelocation to another and profiting from it was viewed as exploitative andultimately unfruitful endeavor for the society. Which is fine, during his time,if you think about what was important for the society, it was mostly food.Trade practices were relatively primitive at the time with very low tradecapacity, so the focus was not on trading rice, but trading expensive luxuryitems like silk, tea and spices, which didn't benefit 95% of the people.
    
    孔子并不认为商业/贸易能够对经济起到任何作用。他认为任何国家想要成功，农民才是中坚力量，他认为商品的交易和获利是具有剥削性质的，对社会来说根本就是无用功。他说的也没错，在他那个时代，食物对一个社会来说才是最重要的。当时的贸易实践还比较原始，贸易量很小，所以当时的重点不是进行粮食贸易，而是对奢侈品比如丝绸、茶叶和香料进行贸易，而因此受益的人只有5%。
    
    harro_prease PhantomFlash • 5 days ago
    what an utter i d i o t i c view ofConfucianism. your logic is like saying literature is not important because itdoesn't have the answer to why Theory of relativity and quantum mechanics don'tquit have the same view on how the universe work.
    Confucianism focuses on how an individualcan fit harmoniously into a society and how can a society be structured.
    
    你这是对儒家思想的误解啊。你的逻辑就好像在说文学是不重要的，因为文学不能解答相对论和量子力学问题。
    儒家学说关注的是个人如何和谐的融入社会，以及如何组织社会。
    
    PhantomFlash harro_prease • 4 days ago
    I never said literature is not important.Are you dyslexic? I said confucianism showed extreme favoritism towardshumanities studies - not just literature but history, philosophy and otherrelated fields at the expense of natural sciences and vocational training andit had disdain for business and trade. Many Chinese scholars and learned peopleincluding Sun Yat Sen pointed out confucianisms neglect of pragmatic pursuitsfactored in decline of Chinese civilization vs. the west.
    
    我没有说文学不重要。你阅读无能吗？我的意思是说儒家学说偏袒人文学科——不仅包括文学，还包括历史，哲学，以及其他相关领域，而不重视自然科学和职业教育，也很蔑视商业和金融。许多中国学者和有识之士包括孙中山都指出儒家学说对实用主义的忽视在中国文明落败西方文明中起到了一定的副作用。
    
    TYRANNASAUR PhantomFlash • 4 days ago
    Sure, that's why Europeans bagged Asians in18th-20th century. because they weren't Confucian enough back then,.....WellPhantom so what about the 85% rural poor that never get to aUniversity....aren't they Confucian enough?
    
    “当然，这就是欧洲在18-20世纪打败亚洲人的原因所在了，因为当时的亚洲人还不够孔子。。。。。
    好吧，那那些没上过大学的85%的农村人又如何。。。他们足够孔子吗？
    
    PhantomFlash TYRANNASAUR • 4 days ago
    I don't know what you're talking about.Please read my post again.
    
    我不知道你在说什么。请在看看我发的内容。
    
    Allen PhantomFlash • 5 days ago
    The Europeans bagged Chinese in 18th-20thcentury because China was ruled by the foreign invaders who suppressed the HanChinese. They did so because they feared that the Han Chinese will take over,and the technology of China did not advance for 200 years.
    
    欧洲之所以在18-20世纪打败中国人，那是因为中国为压制汉人的外部入侵者所统治。之所以镇压汉人，是因为统治者害怕汉人夺权。当时中国在技术上于200年间都不领先。
    
    PhantomFlash Allen • 4 days ago
    Qing dynasty was one of the most successfulChinese dynasties in its history on the same breath as Han/Tang/Song era, farbetter than Ming it succeeded in terms of achievements and size of its territory.China wouldn't have inner mongolia, Manchuria or Tibet if it wasn't for theQing dynasty. Qing suppressed Han Chinese? do you know the composition of HanChinese in Qing's bureaucratic system? They were the majority at every levelsof the gov't.
    
    清朝是中国最成功的朝代之一，统治的时间跨度可与汉、唐、宋媲美，在成就以及领域规模上比明朝强。如果没有清朝，那现在的中国也不会有内蒙、满洲或者XZ了。清朝镇压汉人？你知道在清朝的统治阶层中，汉人占了多少吗？不管在哪一层级的政府里，汉人都占多数。
    
    mancaesar PhantomFlash • 4 days ago
    Absolutely. Qing emperors were even carefulto choose the same number of Manchu and Han concubines so as not to upset thebalance.
    
    当然。清朝皇帝还纳一样数目的满人和汉人为妾，以此保持满、汉平衡。
    
    mateo harro_prease • 5 days ago −
    No, your stupidity is not due to a lack ofConfucian culture. It is due to a lack of effort. You don't know what thisarticle is about because you are too lazy to read it. The poor provinces inChina with terrible education systems also have Confucian culture. Try again.
    
    不是的，你的愚蠢不是因为你对儒家文化不了解，而是你懒。你太懒了，都不仔细先读读这篇文章。中国教育现状糟糕的贫穷省份中也存在儒家文化。再去读读。
    

网友评论2013-12-24 14:01

    好长
    求总结
    

网友评论2013-12-24 14:10

    我怎么觉得外国佬认识的儒家文化比国人还要深刻？
    

网友评论2013-12-24 15:20

    好长
    总结就是很多人总对自己不了解的事夸夸其谈
    中国国内都未将PISA作为一个重要或者权威的评估结果向公众大肆宣传而大洋彼岸的美国佬就通过一个“中国第一美国第36”的结果开始深层次讨论了
    国内教育问题远比他们想象的复杂的多，要是他们知道上海尽管代表中国夺得了第一但在国内未必是最好的不知道会是什么表情，要是他们知道国内有省份教育资源分配严重不均却又是高考大省又是什么表情。随便拉个千百年的儒家文化已经融在血液里的土生土长的中国人都不敢妄谈当今的教育制度受儒家文化有多少影响，他们只通过间接了解少许内容就可以评判教育优劣了。龙腾的本意可能是好的让更多国际的声音传入国内，但是这种不经甄选的帖子还是得多把把关。
    

网友评论2013-12-24 15:23

    Reply Post by 兵库北 (2013-12-24 14:01):
    
    好长
    求总结
    
    老外说中国人都是装逼犯，东部刷数据，西部还在吃草
    
    一个字总结：酸
    

网友评论2013-12-24 15:24

    Reply Post by bossyc100 (2013-12-24 14:10):
    
    我怎么觉得外国佬认识的儒家文化比国人还要深刻？
    
    这也是你的误解了