Within a negative sentence, where do I put 一起?
For example:
- 我们不一起上汉语课
- 我们一起不上汉语课
What's the grammar rule?
在一个否定句里面，我因该把“一起”放在哪里？
例如：
- 我们不一起上汉语课
- 我们一起不上汉语课
有什么语法规则吗
#2 valikor ：
I do not know a grammar rule to answer your question,but I do think both of those sentences sound wrong.
I would probably use a different phrasing, such as oneof the following:
我们不是一起上汉语课的。
我们不是同一个班的学生。
etc.
Hopefully someone smarter than me can give you a moredefinite answer. Good luck!
我不知道有能解答你的问题的语法，但我觉得这两句都错了。
我可能会用不同的句子，如下：
我们不是一起上汉语课的。
我们不是同一个班的学生。
希望楼下有大神能解答你的问题，好运！
Improving：
Thank you for your answer!
The problem is that the example I wrote is in a ChineseGrammar...but the solution is not indicated...so, I guess, one of those twomust be right, but I can't say which one... :wall
Both sentences can be understood, but differently. The first one means that we don't dosomething together. The second one meansthat together we do not do something. Sothe first one means that "we don't go to the same Chinese class",whereas the second one means that "we decide not to go to the ChineseClass (and go to the cinema or go hiking, etc)".
I think you got it right for the first one 我们不一起上汉语课,the 2nd one isn't a real sentence. Does it say something about 定语?
我觉得对于第一句‘我们不一起上汉语课’你是对的，而第二句不是一个真正的句子。貌似它缺少了定语？
joggerWu：Right, right, I'm with skylee for now. It's just the 2nd one soundslittle awkward to me, maybe better not to use it.
对，对，我现在同意skylee的说法了。只是第2句对我来说听起来怪怪的，所以你最好别用这句。
Cassidy：
I don't know the grammar rule, but as a Chinese, I thinkboth of them are right, but they have different meanings.
- 我们不一起上汉语课
We don't have Chinese lesson together.
- 我们一起不上汉语课
We don't have Chinese lesson.
Whenever“不” put, it negates the next verb after itself.
such as:我不喜欢做作业，"不" negates the next verb "喜欢", means"dislike"
but 我喜欢不做作业, "不"negatesthe next verb "做"，means "don't do"
So I think both these sentences are right, it dependswhat do you want to say
我不知道有什么语法规则，但作为一个中国人，我觉得两个都没问题，但有不同的意思。
- 我们不一起上汉语课
我们不一起上汉语课。
- 我们一起不上汉语课
我们不上汉语课。
不管“不”这个字放在哪，它使它的下一个动词变成否定了。
例如：我不喜欢做作业，"不" 否定了动词 "喜欢", 意思是“不喜欢”
但是“我喜欢不做作业”，“不”否定了动词“做”，意思是“不做”
所以我觉得两个句子都是对的，这取决于你想怎么说。
Improving：
So, they are both right? ...Then, why in that exercise Iam asked to find the right one?
所以他们都是对的？…那么为什么我的练习题会叫我找出正确的那个？(这是多坑爹的练习题啊←_←)
Roddy：
Which book is this, and what's the full question?
哪一本书？全题是怎么问的？
Improving
It is a Chinese Grammar book for Italians edited byHoepli. That unit is about the negation "不" and the otherone "没", and the exercise just ask to choose the right sentence!
I agree with you all. When I read them for the firsttime, they both don't sound wrong to me, just different in meanings. But,because I was asked to find the right one, I thought there was an error in thefirst sentence or in the second one...I simply wonder if there is a particularrule or a criterion for considering as "right" one of them!
I agree with valikor above; both sentences soundungrammatical to me. I've already spotted a mis-use of 一起 and 不 in theanswer key of the Corso Base as edited by Hoepli.
I think there are several issues here, and I think noneof them relate directly to 不 vs 没. One of them is where adverbs that are not monosyllabic referentialadverbs (in the words of Yip & Rimmington) come with respect to 不. The otheris the inherent dissonance of the pairing disyllabic adverbs that must existwithout 地 with a monosyllabic negative adverb. You could pick one based onthe first criterion alone, but I'm not sure you have met adverbial ordering inChinese yet.
Then I'm pretty sure the correct answer is the 1st one.As you can see both are the basic structure--主、谓、宾 for a sentence.
It's practically where you place the 否定 that makesthe difference, nothing to do with the 一起.
As in 我们不一起上汉语课, orderly 主语、否定、状语、谓语、宾语, the 状语‘一起’ is modifying the verb 上 and then thepreceding 不 is negativing the 状语‘一起’；conversely, 我们一起不上汉语课, orderly 主语、状语、否定、谓语、宾语. Since the negatory gobefore the 谓语, instead, which is accordingly negativing the verb 上.
Coupled with the interpretation all the other guysposted, I think it'll tackle your hassle
Oh, almostforgot, the 2nd sentence is grammatical correct, but naturally wrong. It's asif when you use it in a talk with a native, they can tell both your meaning andyour origin. Thinking about the "long time no see" in English.
啊，几乎忘了，第2句在语法上是正确的，但实际用法错了。如果你在街上和当地人这么说，它们也能明白你的意思。就像英语里的"long time no see"一样。
Mindmaxd：
我们不一起上汉语课We 不一起, means we are not together.
- 我们一起不上汉语课We 一起不 means we are together not
So you they are all right,it you want use 没 replace 不,the firstone will be better.
我们不一起上汉语课， “我们” “不一起”, 意思是我们不一起
- 我们一起不上汉语课 “我们” “一起不” 意思是我们一起不
所以两句都是对的，但如过第1句里用“没”来代替“不”会更好。
陳德聰：
My firstinstinct when I see this type of question is that the answer they want you topick is "we're not in the same class" and not "we both decide (atogether decision) to not go to class", just since usually I feel likepeople who write textbooks put in these kinds of examples to give you the chanceto pretend you are a model student and not to say "hey we like to skipclass".
Either way bothsound funny to me personally, I would say 我们不在一起上汉语课 to meanthat we aren't in the same class.
Would you say 我们在一起上汉语课？一起 is an adverb here, and 在 would convert it to an object, splitting it off from the verbphrase 上汉语课 and making it sound odd (to my ears).
I'm not surewhat you mean that it would convert it into an object... It's still anadverbial phrase... I think the reason I inserted the 在 in thenegative is because it feels awkward negating 一起 here... Though Iguess not in every sentence ever, "为什么不一起上课？"doesn't give me the same heebyjeeby feeling.
