» I’m spiritual, not religious’ is something people say to make themselves sound interesting. It doesn’t work. What is intriguing, though, is that, according to this new survey, those who see themselves as spiritual but don’t follow conventional religion are far more likely to be mentally ill. Now, before you trolly atheists out there in webland start typing ‘What a lot of crap. … anyone who believes in God is nuts. LMFAO!!’, read me out. Yes, we might have a case of chicken-and-egg here — the chicken being mental illness and the egg being the thirst for existential understanding. Or vice-versa. But the survey might also go to prove the value of that least trendy thing: organised religion. It is a very strenuous thing for the psyche to accept the idea of transcendental power (or whatever you want to call it) without some structure and external guidance. In grappling the eternal questions with little religious routine, the spirtual-but-not-religious are putting too much strain on their subconscious. Organised religion, for all its flaws, does offer support to believers, even if it is all feel-goodery and fairytales. 现在，当你追随网络上的无神论者正打出“什么坑爹玩意，相信神的人都是傻X，笑死我了！”之前，先来看看这个。对，现在我们也许又陷入了鸡生蛋蛋生鸡的问题患精神病和追求存在主义无神论，到底谁先谁后？而这项调查或许也证明了最不时髦的宗教组织的价值。没有任何组织和外部引导，要让心灵接受对超自然力量(随便你叫它什么)的理解是相当困难的。在探讨这些永恒话题时如果不借助宗教的力量的话，那些“精神信仰而非宗教信仰”者将会给自己的潜意识造成巨大的负担。宗教组织，尽管存在着种种缺陷，但它的确一直支持着它们的信徒，就算这些宗教都只是良好的感觉和天真的神话。Richard Dawkins, bless him, said before Christmas that raising children as Roman Catholics is worse than child abuse. It may be that telling children to explore the spiritual realm without guidance is a greater cruelty still.愿神保佑Richard Dawkins(译者注：著名的无神论者)，他曾在圣诞节前说像罗马天主教徒那样教育孩子甚至比虐待他们还要糟糕。我们最好让孩子们知道在没有引导之下就探索精神世界将是一件更加残忍的事情。 评论翻译:-------------译者：wildog-审核者：chen_lt------------Matt RiemanThe title of your column is very misleading. Atheists, by definition, are not "spiritual". Atheism is simply the rejection of the claim that gods exist, based on a lack of evidence. You're thinking of a segment of the "nones" (currently 20% of the population) who claim to be "spiritual" but not affiliated with organized religion. Nice try, but I'll stick with reality thanks.Matt Rieman你的标题取得相当有误导性。按照定义来说，无神论者并不具备“精神性”无神论仅仅只是一种拒绝神明存在的论调，因为这种理论认为根本就没有证据表明神明是存在的。所以你所指的其实是那些声称自己具有“精神性”但却不属于任何宗教团体的“非宗教者”(占当今人口的20%)。不错的尝试，但我还是坚持于现实所存在的。The Fog Horn Do comments on here need to be approved before they become visible? My comments keep getting deleted. The Fog HornFergus Pickering Wrong. What you are describing is agnosticism. Atheism is the firm belief that God does not exist. A firm belief cannot be based on lack of evidence, nor is it. An atheist is one who hates religion. Fergus Pickering你错了。你所描述的是不可知论，无神论是坚信神不存在。一种坚定的信念根本就不可能缺少证据，也不会缺少证据。无神论者就是憎恨宗教的人。studio1972 Nope: "Atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods" Oxford English Dictionary.studio1972才不是，看牛津词典里的解释：“无神论者：一个不相信神的存在或缺少对此信仰的人。”-------------译者：枯萎薰衣草-审核者：tvenana------------Fergus Pickering That is not what the OED says. Shame on you. The core meaning is DENIAL of God and consequent moral wickedness. As with Dawkins, a very wicked man. But with a bit of luck God will plague him with boils. Fergus Pickering 牛津大词典说的是不正确的。使你蒙羞。如同 Dawkins，一个非常邪恶的人。不过幸运的是上帝会让他下油锅的。Sara Sharick The "a" in atheist just means "not" in the same way that the "a" in atypical means not typical or the "a" in apolitical means without regard to politics. It doesn't mean anarchist. Atheist just means a lack if belief in any gods, not an affirmative denial of existence. If you'd like to provide some physical, independently verifiable evidence that will hold up to the usual standards of intellectual rigor, I'll be more than happy to believe you. I still wouldn't join you at church though. Sara Sharick 字母“a”在“无神论者”这个词中只是表示否定，与其在“非典型的”这个词中表示“不是”典型的、在“与政治无关的”这个词中表示与政治“没有”关系一样。并不意味着(无神论者是)无政府主义者。“无神论者”只意味着缺少对任何神明的信仰，而并不一定是邪恶的存在。如果你愿意提供一些能够严谨地支持普遍情况下的理智思维标准的物质的、有独立证明能力的证据，我将更愿意信仰你，而不会(只是)因为教会的说法就加入你。Daniel Maris A poor analogy. Much better would be "amoral". That means literally "without morals" but it is understood that in life that means you oppose the claims of morality. Daniel Maris 无力的类比。“无道德观念的”这个词可以更好的作为类比。这个词字面的意思就是“没有道德感”，而在生活中的理解是抵制道德准则的要求。CheddarMelt Actually that would be "immoral." "Amoral" simply means that it is neither moral nor immoral. A hurricane, for example, is amoral. It isn't moral, and it isn't immoral; it simply exists. CheddarMelt 事实上应该是“不道德的”这个词。“无道德观念的”这个词只是简单的表示既没有“道德”也没有“不道德”。举例来说，一场飓风，就是无道德观念的，它既不是道德的，也不是不道德的，它只是一种存在。-------------译者：kulewy531-审核者：chen_lt------------Pastor Voltaire It has nothing to do with moral wickedness. Haven't you ever heard of Humanist Philosophy or Epistemology? The thing you're thinking of is by no means Atheism.这和精神上的邪恶毫无关系。你没有听说过人道主义哲学和认识论吗？你所以为的那些根本不是无神论。I think are you trying to explain ANTItheism, which the rejection of religion. Or Satanism, the rejection of God.我在想你是不是把无神论当成了排斥宗教信仰，或者说诋毁上帝的撒旦主义。Atheism, on the other hand, only means the 'lack' of religion. They have chosen not to make up their minds because there's no data available that could persuade them to believe. And who can blame them? It is a matter of faith rather than knowledge. And they base their opinions on knowledge instead of faith, so it can't be a belief. Don't you think that's at least acceptable? Especially given how they still follow the 'teachings' of Christ in that they do not kill and steal?其实无神论的含义仅仅是没有宗教信仰。他们决定不要信仰宗教是因为现在没有足够证据说服他们。谁又可以以此怪罪他们呢？宗教是一种信念而不是一种知识学问。而他们把自己的观点建立在知识学问上而不是建立在信念上，因此他们不信神。你不觉得这种做法至少也是可以接受的吗？并且他们也在遵从神的“教导”，不杀人也不偷盗。And why are you wishing boils onto another man? I thought you were Christian. Aren't you Christian? It pains me to see that you let evil into your heart in such a measure that you wish suffering onto another man. Know that the teachings of Christ want you to forgive Mr. Dawkins, and all other humans, for being who they are. Yet here you are, making judgements as if you are god himself. I wil pray for your when the devil comes to claim your soul, my friend. For you are no Christian, merely a fan of Christ.为什么要让别人下油锅呢？我想你应该是基督徒，不是吗？那么看到你让恶魔占据你的内心，以至于乐于见到它人受难，我感到很痛心。基督的教导是希望你原谅Dawkin‘s先生以及其他所有人。但是现在你以神自居，妄自判决他人。我的朋友，当魔鬼来要你命的时候，我会为你祈祷的。，因为我的朋友你不是基督徒，而只是基督的”粉丝“。 -------------译者：陆荏伊-审核者：chen_lt------------Bryan Richards Assert the wrong ideas all you want. Atheism is merely the lack of belief. Not asserting that god doesn't exist. I often see this confusion of very simple words among religious and spiritual types alike. 你所说的这些想法都是错误的。无神论仅仅是缺少信仰，不是坚称上帝不存在。我经常看到一些人会混淆这两个简单的词汇，包括宗教人士和灵性人士。Daniel Maris Bryan, strange as it may seem most of us go on evidence. And the evidence, so abundant you can call it proof it you like, is that people who call themselves atheists are invariably vehement in their belief that no deity exists. The clever ones dress it up as an absence of theistic belief (without ever acknowledging that theism is not the only type of belief in a deity) while the stupid ones let it all hang out and don't care. 楼上，也许看上去很奇怪，我们大部分人相信证据。并且，而且我们掌握的证据是如此的丰富，这证据就是那些把自己称为无神论者的人一成不变、无比强烈的坚信神的不存在。聪明的人用它来显示自己没有宗教信仰(甚至不承认有神论不是唯一一个相信神明存在的宗教信仰)，而傻子就让它全显示出来，并且一点都不关心。TomTom The real question is whether a Disbelief in God in reciprocated and with what ultimate effect 真正的问题是一个不信上帝者是否在轮回中，并且会有怎样的最终后果。Brian Westley That isn't even coherent enough to be nonsense. 扯太远了吧，连废话都算不上。-------------译者：陆荏伊-审核者：chen_lt------------Matt Rieman Sorry, but I've been an atheist all my life, and have known many. None of them proclaim to have an absolute belief that gods don't exist. Again, we just don't accept the claim, based on a lack of evidence. Show us some evidence and we'll consider it. Absolute knowledge is a claim only theists make. I don't hate religion, just the damage people have done, and continue to do to society in it's name. Matt Rieman对不起，但是我一直都是一个无神论者，还认识很多和我一样的人。没有一个人非常绝对的认为上帝是不存在的。但同时，我们也不接受没有证据的宣称。给我们看一些证据，我们会考虑。绝对知识是有神论制造的一种说法。 我不反感宗教，只是讨厌那些以宗教之名对社会已经造成的以及将继续造成的破坏/这是哪个国家啊？怎么也有审核？太长求总结 求观点鲜明，准备战队有神？求总结，给我来个500W再来给我说神，否则免谈。王小波：优越感种种我在美国留学时，认识不少犹太人——教授里有犹太人，同学里也有犹太人。我和他们处得不坏，但在他们面前总有点不自在。这是因为犹太教说，犹太人是上帝的选民；换言之，只有他们可以上天堂，或者是有进天堂的优先权，别人则大抵都是要下地狱的。我和一位犹太同学看起来都是一样的人，可以平等相交，但也只是今生今世的事。死了以后就会完全两样：他因为是上帝的选民，必然直升天堂；而我则未被选中，所以是地狱的后备力量。地狱这个地方我虽没去过，但从书上看到了一些，其中有些地方就和全聚德烤鸭店的厨房相仿。我到了那里，十之八九会像鸭子一样，被人吊起来烤——我并不确切知道，只是这样猜测。本来可以问问犹太同学，但我又不肯问，怕他以为我是求他利用自己选民的身份，替我在上帝面前美言几句，给我找个在地狱里烧锅炉的事干，自己不挨烤，点起火来烤别人——这虽是较好的安排，但我当时年轻气盛，傲得很，不肯走这种后门。我对犹太同学和老师抱有最赤诚的好感，认为他们既聪明，又勤奋；就是他们节俭的品行也对我的胃口：我本人就是个省俭的人。但一想到他们是选民，我不是选民，心里总有点不对劲。我们民族的文化里也有这一类的东西：以天朝大国自居，把外国人叫做“洋鬼子”。这虽是些没了味的老话，但它的影响还在。我有几位外国朋友，他们有时用自嘲的口气说：我是个洋鬼子。这就相当于我对犹太同学说：选民先生，我是只地狱里的烤鸭。讽刺意味甚浓。我很不喜欢听到这样的话——既不愿听到人说别人是鬼子，也不愿听人说自己是洋鬼子。相比之下，尤其不喜欢听人说别人是洋鬼子。这世界上各个民族都有自己的文化，这些文化都有特异性，就如每个人都与别人有些差异。人活在世上，看到了这些差异，就想要从中得出于己有利的结果。这虽是难以避免的偏执，但不大体面。我总觉得，这种想法不管披着多么深奥的学术外衣，终归是种浅薄的东西。 对于现世的人来说，与别人相较，大家都有些先天的特异性，有体质上的，也有文化上的。有件事情大家都知道：日耳曼人生来和别的人有些不同：黄头发、蓝眼睛、大高个儿，等等。这种体质人类学上的差异被极个别的混账日耳曼人抓住，就成了他们民族优越的证据，结果他们就做了很多伤天害理的事。犹太民族则是个相反的例子：他们相信自己是上帝的选民，但在尘世上一点坏事都不做。我喜欢犹太人，但我总觉得，倘他们不把选民这件事挂在心上，是不是会好些？假如三四十年代的欧洲犹太人忘了这件事，对自己在尘世上的遭遇可能会更关心些，对纳粹分子的欺凌可能会做出更有力的反抗：你也是人，我也是人，我凭什么伸着脖子让你来杀？我觉得有些被屠杀的犹太人可能对上帝指望得太多了一点——当然，我也希望这些被屠杀的人现在都在天堂里，因为有那么多犹太人被纳粹杀掉，我倒真心希望他们真是上帝的选民；即使此事一真，我这非选民就要当地狱里的烤鸭，我也愿做这种牺牲——这种指望恐怕没起好作用。这两个例子都与特异性有关。当然，假如有人笃信自己的特异性一定是好的，是优越、正义的象征，举一千个例子也说服不了他。我也不想说服谁，只是想要问问，成天说这个，有什么用？犹太人在现世不做坏事？。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。蛋疼 王小波：优越感种种 犹太人在现世不做坏事？ Post by liuyicheng (2013-01-15 11:39)上帝？关我屌事。露珠是矮墩墩的 的马甲?神把我都投到HARD模式了还要信他干蛋？苍天弃吾，吾宁成魔LZ转帖请注明龙腾网以及作者这种贴在美帝要被请去喝茶的