网易TED演讲合集
Phil Klein 500+ +5ReplyTED ATTENDEETEDX ORGANIZERJan 24 2011: This talk presents a fundamentally crucial conversation that we in the West need to have. The failure to realistically, openly explore, accept, understand and relate effectively to significantly different cultures/civilizations, especially China, is utterly unwise and unnecessary. Here's to taking seriously the project of knowing and seeing beyond western eyes, fixed conceptions, and the overconfidence that we already understand China and the world beyond our local borders.
这样的讨论提出了一种从根本上至关重要的谈话,而这是在西方的我们需要的。现实的失败让我们需要公开地探索、接受、并有效地对显著不同的文明理解,尤其是中国,而原先这种理解是完全不明智和不必要的。我们来认真对待这个项目的了解和看到超越西方的视角、固定的概念、过度自信,我们已经了解中国和边界以外世界的地方。
Jim Price 20+Jan 24 2011: I read about China every week in magazine articles, but the focus is usually on Chinese economic or diplomatic actions as they relate to U.S. or European interests. This talk gave me more cultural context than a year's worth of articles. Mr. Jacques's book just shot to the top of my "must read" list. Classic TED!
我读到关于中国每周在杂志上的文章,但重点通常是对中国经济和外交行动，因为它们都与美国或欧洲的利益有关。这个报告给我相当于一年分量的文章有关于这些文化语境的问题 。雅克先生的书真是射杀我的之前的“必读书目”列表。经典的TED!
Tobias Duncan I am with you Jim,I am fascinated by China, I feel I know way more about China than the average American.One eloquent talk and I realize I know nothing about China .
我赞同你，吉姆。我对中国着迷,我觉得我比一般的美国人更了解中国。但这个动人的演讲,让我意识到我对中国一无所知。
Jeff Cook
Jan 24 2011: This talk was very interesting. I once worked with an older man who majored his degree in Chinese history. Most people don't realize the Chinese were the first sailors in the world who actually taught the Europeans to sail. If you understand that in China everything is cyclical. Look at the Chinese calendar, is a circle. Their philosophy is much the same. They may not be number one militarily or economically speaking NOW but they know everything comes in time and will be number one soon (as Mr. Jacques illustrates for us). I think he did a great job raising awareness about the fact that we in the West are ignorant of other world cultures and we better get used to the idea soon. For better or worse soon America won't be the biggest kid on the block.
这是非常有趣的谈话。我和一个较为年长曾在中国攻读历史专业学位的的男子共事。大多数人没有意识到中国人是世界上第一个水手，实际上教会了欧洲航行(是指指南针吗)。你应该明白,在中国任何事情都是周期性的。看看中国日历,是一个圆形。他们的哲学也同样如此。他们也许不是头号军事或经济强国,但是现在他们知道一切事情都是水到渠成，以及很快将成为世界第一。(就像雅克给我举的例子一样)我认为他做的很不错，让我们提高意识到这一事实——我们西方人忽略其他世界文化以及我们迅速的接受了这个想法。或好或坏很快美国将不会是世上最大的国家。(大概是指经济)
Ivan Feri嬁10+
Jan 25 2011: They may have been the first sailors (I don't know), but to say that they taught Europeans how to sail is misleading. They have maybe improved it, but not taught it since the Europeans were sailing way before they met any Chinese people.
他们可能是第一个水手(我不知道),但是说他们教欧洲人如何航行是误导性的。他们有可能改善,但不是教它由于欧洲人正在航行之前,他们没有遇到了任何中国人。
Devron Harper
Jun 15 2012: The innovative culture that is mentioned in this talk, whatever that was left of it, was destroyed by the Communist Party many times over. It is as if China's history is 4000 years old in some ways yet 60 years old in other ways. If China ever seeks to challenge the USA as a superpower it must become an innovative society, which means that the CCP must give up power to do this. I don't get the impression that this will be a peaceful process. Let's hope that their domestic problems will not turn to external problems if the CCP tries to find an international foe to unite and distract its peoples attention away from their internal difficulties.
The graphs that the speaker uses are misleading because the Chinese economy will slow down (and already is) as it finishes copying all the technology the west has already created for it to upgrade it's buildings and infrastructure. At some point the Chinese must transition into an innovative society to keep their economy going, but I believe that because their culture is so anti -creativity they will go through a period of serious turmoil before they can even think about being equal with the west.
在这次演讲中提到了创新文化,那为什么在接下来的岁月里,共XX能摧毁了这一切？就好像在某些方面中国的历史有4000年的历史然而在其他方面他只有60岁。如果中国试图作为一个超级大国挑战美国,它必须成为一个创新型社会,这意味着CCP必须放弃权力。我不觉得这将是一个和平的过程。如果中国共XX试图找到一个国际的敌人,团结、分散其人民的注意力从他们的内部的困难，让我们希望他们的国内问题不会转向外部问题 。
讲话者使用这图表,会产生误导。因为中国经济将减速(已经)因为它已经复制西方所有的技术，已经为其升级它的建筑和基础设施。在某种程度上来说,中国必须转变成一个创新的社会保持经济持续发展,但我相信,因为他们的文化是如此的反创造力，他们在可以考虑与西方的平等之前将经历一段严重的动荡 。
Adam Hoffman 50+
Jan 24 2011: This is an amazing look at a culture that is both fascinating and frightening. Despite being a Westerner, I am not afraid of China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy. I see this as an inevitability, and we will have to learn to adapt to that world. What scares me, however, is what Jacques portrays as this massive, unified wave that overtakes and consumes and assimilates all in its path. ("Resistance is futile!") I worry that, unified in cultural identity as they are, the new world, under China, will not be as tolerant to other cultures and other ideals. 90% of Chinese may self-identify as Han, but certainly 60-70% of the world is not Han. China thus far has not demonstrated a stellar record for civil liberties, to be sure. As much of the world is Westernizing, is the rest Easternizing? Is the new future one where it becomes Us and Them?
是什么造就了这么一个令人惊奇的，看着既迷人而又可怕的文化。尽管是一个西方人,但我不害怕中国超越美国,成为世界上最大的经济体。我认为这是不可避免的,我们将不得不学会适应这个世界。我怕什么。然而,是雅克·描绘这个庞大的、统一的浪潮中,超越和消耗并且接受所有的路径上。(“抵抗是徒劳的!”),我担心,统一的因素在中国文化的分量。新的世界,在中国,不会容忍其他的文化和其他的理想。90%的中国可能会自我认定为汉族,但肯定60 - 70%的世界不是汉族。中国到目前为止并没有证明履历辉煌的公民自由,当然。世界上大部分是西化的,其他的正在东方化吗?是新的未来,使其成为我们和他们吗?
Rapolas Binkis
Feb 3 2011: Fear is the path to the dark side...
恐惧让人们进入黑暗的一面
Job van der Zwan I'm half-Dutch, half-Chinese, and the weird thing is that I have the feeling it makes me more uncomfortable with Chinese people than "full-blooded" Western people. I never quite understood why, because I don't have this problem with any other ethnicity (including other Asians).
The other half-Chinese I've met in my life said they also felt this way, so there must be something going on. Maybe it's the fact that Chinese culture is as exotic to me as it is to other Westerners, except in my case that makes me feel like I don't fit in.
我是中荷各占一半血统的混血儿，但是我感觉它使我在接触中比“纯正的”西方的人，面对中国人更不舒服 。我从来不理解为什么,因为我与其他族群(包括其他亚洲人) 没有这个问题。
我遇到的其他中国混血儿，他们说在他们的生命中也有这样的感受(觉得中国人特别),所以一定有事情正在发生。也许是这样一个事实,即中国文化是对我一样与众不同的,因为它是其他西方国家的人,除了我的情况让我觉得我不适合。
Geng ("Grace") Zhang 10+
Jan 24 2011: Where did you grow up? I think that's easy to understand why we feel uncomfortable with people having a different living experience and cultural background. In China people grew up in north would feel uncomfortable with people grew up in south, to some extent. I think if you grew up in China, and was brought to the West in your 20s, you would have felt a little more uncomfortable with your West side, at least at the beginning.
(回复楼上) 你在哪里长大的?我认为这很容易理解，因为我们感到不舒服的人都有一个不同的生活体验和文化背景。在中国,北方人会不爽南方人,在某种程度上。我认为如果你在中国长大的,并被带到西方在20多岁时,你会觉得有点不舒服的与你的西方背景,至少在起步阶段。
Job van der Zwan
Jan 25 2011: The Netherlands, mostly, except for the first three years of my life, during which I lived in Ghana. That's irrelevant anyway: I understand your argument, but my point is that I don't have this issue with any other foreign culture, and I've been in contact with a lot during my hitchhiking trips.
Some people I've met asked me if I couldn't be a bridge builder between cultures (and if this doesn't apply to mixed race people in general), but I think that's like mixing two things and expecting that the result will be both things at the same time, while the thing is that you end up with something that's neither.
在荷兰,主要是,除了我生命的头三年。在此期间,我住在加纳。那是不相干的事情:我明白你的观点。但我的观点是,我没有这个问题，我没有与其他任何外国文化过多的接触,即使在我搭便车旅行我接触过很多外国文化。
我见过一些人问我能不能成为中荷之间的文化桥梁之类的(假如一般来说这并不适用于不同种族的人们),但我觉得这就像混合两种东西和期望,结果将会是浪费时间和精力。
Geng ("Grace") Zhang
Jan 25 2011: "something that's neither" that's interesting. I feel the same way having studied in the U.S. and China. Ironically, I felt myself not that perfect as to represent a Chinese' point of view cause I have absorbed so much from the other culture and I kind of felt myself "something that's neither." and I couldn't decide whether this is good or not. But still, your argument is interesting and I can see where's the idea of being unable to communicate well with your Chinese side come from. I think overall yes, maybe your chinese side just does not understand the outside world as well as you did, and maybe they just don't speak english well so they hesitate to start a conversation. Or maybe that's just because according to traditional chinese families' values, there are kind of rules they expect people to follow but don't know exactly they should impose on you. It really depends on your family.
有些时候两者皆否也挺有趣的。我在研究了在美国和中国之后，也有同样的感觉。具有讽刺意味的是,我觉得自己不是完美的,代表了中国的观点,因为我已经吸收了这么多来自其他文化而我有一种感觉是自己的东西”,两者皆否。“我不能决定这是否良好。
但是,你的论点是有趣的,我能看到无法与你沟通思想的来自你中国那方面。我认为整体是的,也许你的中国一侧并不只是对外部世界的了解像你一样好,也许他们只是不会说一口流利的英语，所以他们犹豫开始一段与你的对话。或者也许这只是因为根据中国传统家庭价值观,有什么样的规则,他们期望人们遵守这些传统价值观(海外华人),但是不知道他们是否应该强加于你。这取决于你的家教(既家长对海外华人的教育，是否认同其中国身份)
Charles Scott
Jan 25 2011: Hello, Geng Zhang! I appreciate your feelings about "something that's neither." From my perspective, this feeling further represents one of the strengths of China and so many Chinese people. You are learning to grow beyond borders and the "something that is neither" may well represent a state of mind or state of being that transcends the narrowness of identification with nation states. Learning to live with that sense is a profound cognitive leap forward, I think. I work with Chinese university students in Canada and have visited China. There is little doubt in my mind that Martin Jacques' thesis is valid and I am quite excited about the prospects.
你好,张耿!我很欣赏你写的感受,两者皆否。从我的角度来看,这种感觉则代表了中国的优势之一(大概是指中华文化坚定的传承在海外华人身上而不同别的国家的移民二代，即使他有了一些变化以及和别的文化的融合，这已经很了不起),所以有许多中国人。你或许正在学习如何超越种族和文化边界的一种伟大变化,两者皆否“很可能代表一种思想状态或存在的状态,已经超越了狭隘的国家认同。学习生活在这个意义上是一场深刻的认知的飞跃,我认为。我在加拿大与中国大学生一起共事，还访问了中国。毫无疑问,我认为马丁雅克论文是有效的,并且我很兴奋这样的前景。(大概是指中华文化崛起对于世界的变化)
Vivian Chow
Jan 25 2011: I think it did not matter where Job was brought up as he reminds me of a NPR story about a China-born-China-raised mix-raced girl in a Shanghai singing competition, she also felt so different with others despite her language fluency as the others. I assume it has something to do with what Martin's idea of Chinese people having the united perception of singular race (basically I think What Chinese people think who are Chinese should be those with dark hair with a Chinese-look face), somehow the identity comes from the outer appearance. I think it's nobody to blame as when you are in China, if you saw someone with "foreigner's look", you will see him as a foreigner in the first place; but my American friend told me, if you saw a Chinese-look person on the street, you always assume him to be an American citizen first.
The NPR link:
我认为生活环境重要性不是这么强大，他让我想起了一个NPR(美国一个电台)的故事：一个在中国土生土长的混血女孩在上海的一个歌唱比赛里的表现,她也觉得与他人不同,尽管她的中文甚至比其他人流畅。我认为中国人一定认同马丁的看法，在美国的看法中华人是一个让人感到奇异的种族(基本上在我的观念中，认为谁是中国的条件应该是那些黑色的头发和一个中国模样的脸),不知怎么的，华人身份来自于外观。我相信没人会怀疑你在中国被人觉得长着一幅外国人的脸的时候，你会首先被当做一个外国人,但我的美国朋友告诉我,如果你看到一个长者中国脸的人走在街上,你总是认为他首先是一个美国公民。(抱歉，我不太懂他的意思，难道是说中国拥有文化认同和种族认同双重的概念而美国则不是吗？)
na Zhang
Jan 25 2011: Chinese are still not accustomed to mix-raced people appear in their daily life as compatriots。
中国在生活中仍不习惯于他们的混血同胞...
Hsin Wang
Jan 25 2011: Hey, look, it's an Asian get together, lol.
I know how you feel, though. I've been in the United States from Taiwan ever since I was 8. I've achieved reasonable success with English, maintain my Mandarin Chinese and Taiwanese for the most, embraced the American culture, and deeply respect my roots and live and think by its teachings. Yet, here in the States, I am still different from most people I meet. Within my community, I'm perceived as an Asian American, in that they think I was born and raised here in the States. Asians from abroad also think me an Asian America. Other Asian Americans, however, still consider me a "FOB"--with unharming humor. And then in Asia, I'm considered American, or, "the kid who grew up in America."
While none of the definitions were untrue, it seems that no matter where I go or who I'm with, I am still considered a foreigner.
我知道你的感觉,虽然。我自从我8岁的时候就已经从台湾来到美国。我在英语上达到了恰当的水平,我坚持能讲普通话和台湾话。尽管我融入了美国文化,但我也深深尊重我的根、曾经的生活和思考它的教义。然而,在美国,我仍然不同于我所见的大多数人。在我的社区,我被认为是一个亚裔的美国人，而他们在美国土生土长。亚洲人也认为我是一个来自国外的亚裔美国人。其他亚裔美国人,但是,仍然认为我是一个“离岸”(既非土生土长的美国人)——一个无伤大雅的幽默。然后在亚洲,我被尊为美国人,或者,“在美国长大的小孩。”
虽然每一个定义都是不真实的,看来,无论我去哪里或我,我仍然被认为是一个外国人。(大概是指因为他仍遵循中华文化的指引，因而在文化上被美国人认为是半路来的，而在国外则？我不太明白是什么原因，反正应该是回复那个中荷混血的)
Geng ("Grace") Zhang
Jan 24 2011: Well, I am a (Han) Chinese (sorry, I am still not used to call myself Han cause that's just never occurred to me the necessity of pointing this out, but in this context it seems so), and I agree most of the part Jim said the part about how would we feel about our race, and how would we feel about the authority. Learned in middle school and high school's history classes, we understood it took a really long period and outrageous efforts to unite this country since Qin, and therefore we treasure this and intend to maintain the solitary no matter how diverse the sections are and no matter how differently thinking we might be. And it worked even when Man (other than Han) governed the country in Qing. I never felt that my classmates or playmates were threatened by me because of my race or I was threatened by them because their ethical identities. The emphasis on racial differences was realized by me since the Western media came along in China and made their speeches.
嗯,我是一个(汉族)中国人(对不起,我还是不习惯称自己为汉族，造成这种情况只是因为我从未想到过它的必要性,但在该上下文中,我似乎应该指出这点, ),我同意吉姆说的大多数的部分，这部分是关于我们如何看待我们的人种,我们将如何看待权力。在初中和高中的历史课程,我们理解我们自从秦汉以来花了惊人的时间和努力来统一这个国家， ,因此我们珍惜这和打算维持这种独立，无论有多么不同种类的部分,无论有多么种不同的思维。这使得我们甚至服从不是不是汉族主导的清朝统治。我从未感觉到我的同学或玩伴因为我的人种或是他们不同的身份而危及到我,。人种的差异被强调是出现在中国的西方媒体的宣传和演讲开启的。
Christian Mertes
Jan 24 2011: Thanks for these insights. After reading your words it seems to me the dichotomy Jacques points out really exists: having only one race is a huge advantage in a way because you are spared one of the major dividing forces. On the other hand, this way you can never learn how to deal with such differences between people and racism wouldn't necessarily stand out as a negative trait.
(回复楼上)感谢你的这些见解。在阅读你的言语我发现了这个分歧真的存在，雅克所指出的:只有一个种族是一个巨大的优势,因为你就就可以节约精力而省的去对付一个主要分裂势力。但另一方面,你无法学会如何处理这种人种之间的差异和种族主义，可能这会成为一个显著消极影响。
Eugen Groh
Jan 24 2011: Hi there Geng
How do you feel about the point Martin was making about how Chinese see their own government? Would you agree that it is true, that there is little distrust or disobedience from the population towards its government, because they see it more as a patron or guardian of civilization, than a constant intruder into their privacy or an institution, that must be monitored suspiciously at all times?
I'm stupefyingly curious about what will happen to our world within my lifetime. We've seen a lot from the fat and delusionally overconfident kid on the global playground during the last century, but China seemed to act unnervingly patient and smart in its slow yet somehow fast rise to the top. I like that in many ways, even if it frightens me in others. If I had to bet on a country, that would be able to bring humanity as a whole through the next century though, I would probably bet on China. Stability becomes paramount now, though it should never come at the cost of human rights.
(问楼上华人)你怎么看待关于雅丁所说的中国人和政府的关系？如果你同意这是真的，那么人民中的一小部分不信任或反抗政府出于他们对于文明或是其他好的方面的担忧，而不是因为政府是一个闯入者，侵犯了他们的隐私？
我很好奇在我的有生之年世界会发生什么变化，在上个世纪我们已经看到了很多从脂肪到妄想过剩过于自信的孩子在全球操场肆意奔驰(是指西方吧)。但中国的地位和力量快速的上升并伴随着他令人畏惧的耐心和智慧。我在很多方面喜欢中国，尽管他在其他方面让我感到恐惧。如果让我打赌哪个国家能带领人类顺利的渡过下个世纪，那么我在中国身上押注。稳定是至关重要的，但是他不应该以消耗人权作为代价
Geng ("Grace") Zhang
Jan 25 2011: Hi Eugen, I think Martin was talking about the big picture. Individually China isn't overtaking anybody soon. Overall yes the citizenry trusts the government and obeys its decisions. However individually conflicts and disharmony exist. There are many radical issues challenge the government's wisdom of providing solutions, such as the overpriced estate, the traffic in big cities and the healthcare for people not working in state-owned institutions. In my case, I am the only child in my family and I have to admit some dissatisfaction towards against the policy because as the only child it makes me harder to take care of my parents way back to China (I am in the U.S.) when they get older and older. I think the fundamental problems is, gains always come with sacrifices. We are more feeling that we are trading individual freedom and interests and opportunities for the overall staggering stability and progression. But that's just my impression.
(回复楼上)Hi Eugen,我认为雅丁更多的是在大局观上描绘。独立的中国不是很快的去压倒谁。整体上是的，市民信任政府和遵循它的决定。然而个体情况上存在冲突和不协调。有许多挑战政府的智慧的问题需要提供解决方案,例如定价过高的房地产,大城市里的交通和医疗照顾的人不在国有研究机构工作。在我的例子中,我是家里唯一的孩子，我和我的家人必须承认对独生子女政策抱有不满,因为它使我当他们慢慢变老的时候难以返回中国照顾我的父母(我在美国)。我认为,根本问题是,收益伴随着牺牲。我们深深的感受到我们的个人自由和利益的发展以及社会的整体稳定和惊人 发展。但这仅仅我的感受。省略一部分
Tanner Caron
Jan 24 2011: What a fundamental topic in the West's future. As an American, I think it would be interesting and useful to add a 16th executive department to our government dedicated to researching and understanding future world affairs on a new level.
在西方的未来中什么是基本的主题呢。作为一个美国人,我认为这将是有趣和有用的即增设一个致力于在新的高度上研究和了解未来世界事务行政部门
Lorne Kelly
Jan 24 2011: I had no idea about that canal! I suddenly have a strong desire to row it. Almost 2000km, and much of it is still operational - simply amazing!
我从不知道那运河(指京杭大运河)!我突然有一种强烈的愿望在那运河里划船！将近2000公里,其中的许多仍然在运转——简单地令人惊讶!
William Kerney Jan 24 2011: Ugh. He makes a lot of errors in this talk, some serious, some not so serious. Indulge me as I put on my pedantic hat.
I'd respect his views more if he could pronounce the words correctly. I flinched when he said Qin and Guanxi. Seriously, if you're a commentator on China, you can afford to spend the 6 weeks it takes to learn to pronounce the pinyin correctly. And the Holy Roman Empire was around "2000 years ago"? What? Well, he probably meant to say the Roman Empire, but still.
No serious challenges to Chinese power in 1000 years? Heh. I guess the Mongols and turnover in dynasties every so often never happened.
More seriously, if he honestly thinks that Hong Kong's one country two systems policy is working as promised, he's either uninformed or willfully deceiving us. There's no self-rule there (as Martin says), in the sense that people can actually vote for their government, or even that they have elections in the normal sense of the word.
I see he was editor for Marxism Today...
呃。他说了不少错误,一些严重的,一些不太严重。请允许我戴上我的迂腐的帽子
我尊重他的观点，假如他能把字读正确那就更好了。比如当他说“秦”和“关系”的时候。说真的,如果你是一个评论员在中国,你就能去花6周去学会发音正确的拼音。以及，神圣罗马帝国大约是“2000年前”?我没听错吗?恩,他也许想说罗马帝国,但这仍然...
在1000年中没有一个外部势力能向中国发出严重的挑战？我猜蒙古人颠覆王朝之类的行为从未经常发生吧(应该是带有幽默意义的反讽，但是没办法很好的结合意译和直译，干脆直译为主)
更严重的一些错误是，如果他真的认为香港的一国两制政策的工作是做出的承诺,那么他要么是不了解要么蓄意欺骗我们。那里没有自治(正如马丁说)，在这个基础上,某种意义上人们可以投票支持他们的政府,甚至他们有正常意义上的选举。
我觉得他(马丁)在撰写现代的马克思主义(我也不太明白他说的到底指出了马丁的什么错误，估计后半部分才是他想说的，不过译者一如既往的觉得他无法理解一国两制的基础，就如视频中马丁所言，所以才说了最后一句，可能他觉得马丁在编故事，ABOUT 马克思主义)
Christian Mertes Jan 24 2011: Let me address at least one of your criticisms: when he said no challenge to the Chinese state's power he meant something comparable to the church or other forces from within the system. Attacks from external forces (i.e. other states) are no threat to his argument.
(回复楼上)让我至少有个地方来批评你吧:当他说没有挑战中国政府的权力，实际上是指诸如可以比得上西方历史上的教堂或其他之类的力量,是从系统内部。攻击来自外部力量(即其他国家)(译：即上文的蒙古)都没有威胁到他的论点。
James Arpa
Jan 25 2011: The challenges are not visible due to suppressive central power. You mentioned church, if you mean something in the category of religion, I refer you to the Tibetans crackdowns and xinjiang's turnouts. The latter happened just one year ago. Both were from within the system.
(回复楼上)中央权力面临的挑战是看不见的抑制。你提到的教会,如果你是指某种意义上的宗教,那么我建议你去镇压西藏以及xj的政治上投票看看。后者是发生在一年前。这两者都从系统内部
Tina Zhang 0 Jan 25 2011: Well，comparing with the other countries,I think you should recognize that the Chinese policy about ethnic minority is very successful. At least you can hardly find discrimination against those peoples in Han.
About Tibet,actually I am realy confused that why so many westerners like Dalai Lama ,even thought he used to be one of the biggest slave owners in the world. If you know something about Tibet's history,you will find the truth is quiet different from what they said,
(回复楼上)好吧,与其他国家相比,我认为你应该认识到中国的政策对少数民族是非常成功的。至少你很难在汉族中找到那些种族歧视。关于西藏,其实我真的疑惑,为什么如此多的西方人喜欢达赖喇嘛,即使他曾经是其中的世界上最大的奴隶主。如果你知道一些关于西藏的历史,你会发现真相是与他们所说的是如此的不同。
The Kurgan In Disguise +1 Jan 25 2011: Tina,
Ethnic genocide and the ongoing destruction of the Uyghur culture might be considered "very successful" policy by Han people. De facto segregation in all government and social functions is the truth for China's ethnic minorities. The Han still treat them (just like they treat anyone else they deem inferior) like absolute shit, and the Uyghurs hate the Han for this.
The Han conquest of mainland China (and continued conquest) is on par with the old European/American view of manifest destiny. Europeans spread across the Americas taking land from others just as the Han spread across China taking land. Both ruled, wiped out, and gave the surviving minorities reservations and autonomous regions.
(回复楼上张提娜)
Tina，汉人可能对于种族屠杀和正在进行的破坏维吾尔族文化的政策觉得”非常成功“。事实上的种族隔离存在于所有的政府和社会服务中，这是中国的少数民族面临的真相。汉仍然把他们(就像他们对待其他人一样,他们认为劣质)当大便一样,回族绝对因此而恨汉族。
汉族征服中国大陆(而且这种征服是持久的)就等同于旧欧洲/美国人的观点：命运站在他们一边。欧洲人遍布美洲一些土地，就像汉族从其他民族那接手中国的其他土地。两者都是裁决,消灭,驱除，然后给了幸存的少数民族保留地和自治区。
Tina Zhang
Jan 26 2011: I am a Chinese student in one of the best high schools in the richest province.What I said is from my own experience.All of my classmate have never thought of that the ethnic issue will be a PROBLEM to China.That is because since we were in primary school, about 6,we have been told that the 56 peoples are all equal and all are the member of the big China's family.My seatmate is a Mogolian.Her father is Mogolian and her mother is Han.But her parents chose Mogolian for her because it will bring her a lot of benifits in both education and special rights,for example,she can have two kids no matter whether her husband is the only child,and as a Han,I can only have one child unless my husband is the only child the same as me.
I recognize that there is must be some problems in Xinjiang and Tibet,or those tragedies would not happened.But I am sure is not related to the discrimminations against the ethnic minority.Actually,in my opinion,that's because the ECONOMY DIFFERENCE.
(回复楼上)
我是一个中国学生，就读在中国一个最富裕的省份中的最好的高中。我说的是来自我的亲身体验。我所有的同学从来没有想到,民族问题上对中国会成为一个问题。这是因为我们在小学以来,大约6年级,我们一直被告知了56个民族都是平等的,并且都是中国大家庭的成员。我的同桌是一个蒙古人。她的父亲是蒙古人而她的母亲是汉族。但是她的父母为她在户口本上登记为蒙古人,因为它会给她带来很多的好处，教育方面和一些特殊的权利,例如,她可以有两个孩子无论她的丈夫是否是独生子女,而作为一个汉族,我只能有一个孩子,除非我丈夫是独生子女，就和我一样。我有意识到在xj和西藏的一些问题,或许那些悲剧本不会发生。但我肯定这不是歧视或反对少数民族。实际上,在我看来,这是因为经济差异。
Tina Zhang +1 Jan 26 2011: Xinjiang has rich oil and gas resources.For long time,all the money from those resources is taken by the central government and PLA(the organization in Xinjiang is very special,called The Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps).Well,the story about the special system in Xinjiang is very long。After Yuan(built by Mogolian) dynasty,Xinjiang has been a province of China.But in the darkestand weakest age of China,1910 to 1949, the Soviet Union try to make it apart.So,after the PRC was established,to fight against those people trying to make Xinjiang independent,the centrel gorvernment set up that organization.
The local people don't benifit a lot from the rare resources.Actually it is a nationwide problem.Shanxi Province, which supports 2 thirds energy in China is faced with the same problem too.
Chinese believe the energy resouces is one of the most essential aspects, the same as military, electricity and banks.All of those are firmly controlled by Beijing.
(同一回复接楼上)
xj拥有丰富的石油和天然气资源。长期以来,所有开发这些资源的资金都是从中央政府和人民解放军(该组织在xj是非常特殊的,称为xj生产建设兵团)拨发的。嗯,这个故事在xj的特色制度是有很长的历史的.自从元(蒙古人建立的王朝)以后、xj已经是中国的一个省。但在中国控制力薄弱的时代,1910年到1949年,苏联试图让它与众不同。所以,中华人民共和国成立后,为了镇压那些人试图让xj独立的人,中央政府设立了该组织(指建设兵团)。
当地的人们没有受益于那些稀有的资源。其实这是一个全国性的问题。山西省供应全国2/3(原文应该少了个煤炭)能源也面临着同样严重的问题。
中国人认为,能源资源是国家最基本和重要的部分,就好像军事、电力和银行一样。所有这些都是坚定地受到北京控制的
The Kurgan In Disguise
Jan 26 2011: Tina, The ethnic genocide carried out by the CPC was before you were born. You are right that the current central government has done a great job in stopping ethnic genocide.
"we have been told that the 56 peoples are all equal and all are the member of the big China's family." You just debunked this by explaining economic differences, special rights, favored education, and division into 56 groups. Do you get bonus points in class when you point out that the government propaganda is completely false?
Uyghurs get refused service in Han restaurants and by Han market vendors on a regular basis both inside and outside Xinjiang. Yunnan minorities on the trains hide in the back because the Han just stare at them and take pictures. China's big dysfunctional and unhappy family.
(回复楼上)Tina，
TG是在你出生之前进行的种族屠杀。你是对的,现在中央政府已经做了大量工作在阻止种族屠杀。“我们一直被告知了56个民族都是平等的,并且都是成员的大中国的家庭。“ 你通过经济差异、特殊权利,教育的青睐,来反驳中国人划分为56团体。那么你会因为在课堂上指出 政府的宣传完全是假的而得到额外的奖励吗？
在xj以外的汉族那，维吾尔受到餐馆和市场摊贩拒绝服务的结果。云南少数民族在列车躲在后面，是因为汉族总是盯着他们并对他们拍照。中国有个大混乱、不幸福的大家庭。
Bill W
Jan 26 2011: Two Corrections.
1. The one country two system concept is not entirely true for Hong Kong. China still have the last say on all the important issues. Wang Dan, one of the student leader from Tiananmen Square protest has just been denied entry into Hong Kong. If one country two system is true, wouldn't you think the pro democracy Hong Kong would welcome Wang Dan. Here is a link to Jan 26 New York Times article about Wang Dan being denied entry.
“In Hong Kong, we no longer enjoy the idea of ‘one country, two systems,' ”
2. The map of Qin, Han dynasty and modern day China are incorrect. Taiwan is not part of China during Qin/Han dynasty and certainly not today. If you have a visa to People's Republic of China you can not enter Taiwan. Please look it up on historic documents and not from the propaganda version of history from the communist China.
1。一国两制的概念并不是完全正确的。中国在重要的问题上仍有保有决定权。王丹---天AM广场的抗议学生领袖之一 进入香港 就被否决了。如果一国两制是真的,你难道不认为赞成民主的香港会对王丹表示欢迎吗。这里是一个链接到1月26日纽约时报文章关于王丹被拒绝入境的新闻。
“在香港,我们不再享受“一国两制’,”
2。地图秦、汉王朝和现代中国是不真实的。台湾在秦汉时期 不是中国的一部分,当然今天也不是 。如果你有一个中华人民共和国的签证你也不能进入台湾。请从真实的历史文件上查询资料而不是共产主义中国篡改的上面。
Sam Qiu
Jan 27 2011: so what? no matter how, there is a period of time that Taiwan is a part of China, which you can not deny.
那又怎样?无论如何,有一段时间,台湾是中国的一部分,你不能否认。
Joana Kompa
Jan 29 2011: how about to let the Taiwanese people decide or are you an imperialist like the West that just claims and conquers? Be careful not to repeat history for the worse :)
让台湾的人民自决如何？而不是在西方和所谓的声明之间挣扎?小心不要重复历史让事情变得更糟:)
White Roc
Feb 3 2011: Why didn't the US let the Sioux people decide their own fate? Or why don't let Seminoles take back Florida? Why even bothered to have a war when the South want to be separated?
为什么我们US不让印第安人决定他们自己的命运?或者为什么不让塞米诺尔人拿回佛罗里达吗?为什么甚至发动一场战争当南北要分裂时?
xin ouyang
Feb 22 2011: well, if china can take over taiwan, and start to educate their next generation that taiwan being back is good and taiwan was part of china, then it will work just fine.
I don't support this though.. however, it's done in the past by other people in other nations.
好吧,如果中国可以接管台湾,并开始来教育他们的下一代,台湾的回归就是好的,台湾是中国的一部分,那么它将工作的很好。
虽然我不支持这个. .然而,在过去做的其他人们在其他国家。(指东西德吧)
Gwayne Li
Feb 24 2011: Hey Joana, have you ever wondered why Taiwanese people talk Mandarin, have the exact same written Language? Or are you defending the Natives which the now Mostly predominated Chinese have Conquered and Assimilated?
IF your defending the Natives, then you should have even a more radical view: Kick all the HAN Chinese out of Taiwan and form a REAL Taiwanese pure blood nation.
If not, then are you going to argue they DO not have the ''same'' written language because of the Simplified vs Traditional Chinese? Or are you somehow also going to add Korea and Japan in your arguments?
I don't defend any subjective opinions here, but I am appalled of people talking without valid arguments / facts... as in Historical Facts.
Have the English set Colony in Australia? yes.
Have the ENglish set Colony in America ? Yes.
Have CHinese set a government in Taiwan Loyal to the Emperor in the Qing Dynasty? Yes.
Have Taiwanese tried to proclaim Independence during the Qing Dynasty? Yes.
Have they Succeeded at that time? No
Have they succeeded with the Guo Ming Dang? Yes
Does Mainland China consider Taiwan to be a Province? Yes
Does Taiwan consider itself to be an Independant Nation? Yes
Are Taiwanese and the mainland Han of the same ethnic Group? Yes (In majority)
Should Taiwan stay Independant? That question is subject to a LOT of subjectivity and personal interest. Too much variables are to be considered and an extensive research should be done in order to present the pros and cons of different aspects: Economical/Social/Political/Ethnical/Individual/Philosophical etc.
All I can say is, there will be notable changes / effects and consequences to the Unification/Assimilation.
Is that GOOOD or BAAAD? That is subject to interpretation depending on the person perceiving the effects.
People should look at everything with Scientific Methodology....
I don't know why people refuse to listen to other point of views.. Why not accept everything with a grain of salt? have ya tried that?
嗨 琼娜,你有没有想过为什么台湾人们用普通话,与大陆有相同的书面语言?或者你是捍卫那些现已基本被踢出了中国主导地位，被征服和被吸收的土著人的权力吗?
如果你的捍卫土著人,那么你应该更加激进的观点:所有的汉族应该被踢出台湾以及台湾的纯血液形成了一个新的真正的国家。
如果不是,那么你会认为他们没有书面语言的“相似”吗,因为大陆的简化字VS台湾的繁体字？或者是你好歹也要在你的论点中增加韩国和日本吗?
我不维护任何主观的观点在这里,但我感到惊愕的，这里的人说话,在历史事实方面没有有效的论点或事实…。
有英殖民地澳大利亚吗?是的。
有英殖民地在美国?是的。
清代在台湾设立一个忠于皇帝的地方政府吗?是的。
有来自台湾试图宣告独立在清代吗?是的。
他们成功了吗?没有
国民党成功统治台湾了吗?是的
中国大陆是否认为台湾是一个省?是的
台湾是否认为自己是一个独立的国家呢?是的
台湾和大陆是汉民族的相同吗?是的(在多数)
台湾应该保持独立?这个问题是受到大量的主观性和个人兴趣。太多的变量将被认为是和一个广泛的研究应该是为了现在的利弊,不同的方面:经济/社会/政治/民族/个人/哲学等等。我所能说的就是,将出现明显变化/效果和后果统一/同化。是很魔鬼亦或是很胆小的吗? 这解释取决于人们感知的影响。人们应该用科学的方法论去看待一切....我不知道为什么人们拒绝听其他观点的. .为什么不接受一些事情?你有试过吗?
Eugen Groh 20+ Jan 24 2011: The whole world (including myself) owes a lot to the United States, especially in the technological advancement department. Yet somehow I can't help but feel that the air is out now. The future is in robotics and technology, and industrialized nations should have started at least a decade ago to do whatever it takes, to educate its young generation to the finest standard conceivable. It's almost too late now, and since first-rate education could potentially be designed to be addictive, free and easily accessible to everyone in our information age - very soon the west will not even have the educational advantage over developing countries.
Time for politics to stop running around like a decapitated chicken, it's all about not falling completely behind now. Europe once played its part in the rise of America, then America played its major part on the world stage, and soon it will be time for the giant developing countries to take over. Let's hope they play fair.
美国曾对这世界贡献良多,特别是高科技领域,但是不知为何,我现在却感到这一趋势不断下滑但确无力阻止,未来是机器人技术的世界,工业化国家至少应该十年前就该排除各种困难用最高标准去教育年轻一代了,现在已经有点晚了,现在我们处于信息时代,任何人都很容易获得免费的一流教育,很快,西方国家对发展中国家的教育优势就会丧失殆尽.
就像要按住一只被剁了头到处乱跑的鸡一样,所有人都希望别落在最后,欧洲曾经在美国的兴起发挥其作用，美国也在属于他的时间段里独领风骚,现在轮到大量的发展中国家取而代之了,希望他们能公正的面对这一使命.
mike a. Jan 25 2011: the future has always been in technology. as for robotics, anyone can throw some pneumatic cyldinders or stepper motors together and program some stuff on a windows PC to make a funny looking robot. the real future is in quantum/molecular computing that will provide the intelligence to turn a puppet into a man, and in nanotechnology to give him self healing skin.
未来一定是属于技术控的,就像机器人领域,每个人都可以把气动唧筒和步进电机组装起来,并在PC上编一段程序,做成一个有趣的机器人,但真正的技术核心还是量子/分子计算技术,他将给机器赋予智能化更趋近人类,同时新的纳米技术将实现皮肤的自我修复.
Antnio Frazão
Jan 24 2011: As a Portuguese, I am proud to belong to a country that as a long tradition on respect and tolerance towards other races, dispite our history of colonization. We where the first country in the west to abolish slavery. And, dispite al criticism that may be around the question of our decolonization, we bild an organization of portuguese-speaking states that is an example for many countries. So, I can only view a world where respect and tolerance is the fundamental key to growth an prosperity. I can not accept a world dominance based on race supremacy.
Europe as fought the war of wars about that, and painfully understude that can never be the way. I fear that the race for economic growth, and for that only, as made us blind and and forgiving abou the lessons of history. I coulnd accept a "wolrd leadership" that not involves respect and human rigths. Because of this I am very sceptical about Chinas "dominace". Even in an economic bases.
作为一个葡萄牙人,我为我的国家拥有悠尊重和容纳其他种族的悠久历史感到自豪.纵观我们的殖民史,我们是西方第一个废除奴隶制的国家,针对周围的质疑,我们创建了葡语国家组织为其他国家作出了榜样.因此我认为对于全世界来说,对不同种族的遵守和宽容才是增长和繁荣的关键因素,我不能接受一个种族主义的世界领导者.
欧洲对战争有着痛苦的经验,并且深刻领悟到再也不能重复那段历史了,我认为单纯的经济竞赛,使我们容易忽视和历史的教训,我不能接受排除了平等和任泉的"世界领导者",因此,我对中国的"优势地位"持怀疑态度,即使是在经济领域.我很费解一些西方人，总是自负的认为比中国人更加了解中国？！ 这群老外还真以为研究了纪念中国历史就明白中国人的生活了,中国最大的
特点就是表面工作，书面上的东西都是有内涵的，看不了内涵就只能看到表面的中国演讲者对中国有一定的了解，但这些评论者都是大傻叉
mark下 等回家再看..应该没火星吧，MARK一记。视频看过了，评论没看过。
马丁还是很了解中国的，下面一些评论的外国人自以为很了解中国的样子。
特别是说到种族主义，我大学就有几个回族同学，完全没感觉到有任何区别，除了吃饭。